Has Russia Been Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?
#21
Russia has never been consecrated by name yet and if you read the book The Fourth Secret of Fatima by Italian journalist Antonio Socci who before he wrote it was not a believer that these things weren't done but his research changed his mind and rattled some people at the Vatican.
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#22
(05-29-2015, 07:15 PM)salus Wrote: Russia has never been consecrated by name yet and if you read the book The Fourth Secret of Fatima by Italian journalist Antonio Socci who before he wrote it was not a believer that these things weren't done but his research changed his mind and rattled some people at the Vatican.

If anything Fatima is a huge mystery, and both the late Father Nicholas Gruner and the journalist Antonio Socci have shed some convincing light on things that point to the possibility of a real cover up within the Vatican itself, reaching all the way to the top.

Even Benedict XVI once said that Fatima is not a yet a thing of the past. A lot of neo conservative Catholics want to turn it into an event that spoke of John Paul II and the fall of communism, but like I said before about Russia, the fact that Russians are returning to Christianity is not all that extraordinary,it's been a part of the Russian soul for nearly a thousand years,only being partly hidden by less than a hundred years of forced atheism.

I'm not really a Fatima devotee overall,but from what I've read about the issue over the years it is intriguing and there are many unanswered questions. The whole prayer,penance and reparation thing is just too vague, too generic, but if true our Lady at Fatima made specific requests, not simple exhortations to basic catechism stuff.

The well documented evidence about all the cover ups is quite intriguing really. Something happened in Portugal in 1917, and the whole truth about what was in that envelope has not been fully revealed.

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#23
By the way, if anyone is interested there are two talks by +Fellay on Fatima and the in-house problems. He covers the basic literature on it, including the recent BXVI “slips of the tongue” and positive affirmations.
I think its safe to post it here, as it hardly contains any polemics of SSPX vs. Vatican and he doesn't trash at all his fellow bishops or the popes. Also, its always nice to hear bishop Fellay—his voice is so soothing. Here and here.
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#24
(05-29-2015, 07:29 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: If anything Fatima is a huge mystery, and both the late Father Nicholas Gruner and the journalist Antonio Socci have shed some convincing light on things that point to the possibility of a real cover up within the Vatican itself, reaching all the way to the top.
There's on mystery; and the message of Fatima is clear. The problem is that people are more interested in conspiracy theories on the Internet than actually heeding the message of Fatima. Here is the message of Fatima:

1. Punishment of the World: Our Blessed Mother can no longer restrain the hand of her Divine Son from striking the world with a just punishment for its many crimes.

2. Amendment of Life: "I have come to warn the faithful to amend their lives and ask pardon for their sins. They must not continue to offend Our Lord, Who is already too much offended."

3. Five Warnings: "If my requests are not granted, Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions against the Church. Many good people will be martyred, there will come another great war, and various nations will be destroyed."

4. War: "Wars are a punishment for the sins of mankind."

5. Sins of the Flesh: "More souls go to Hell because of the sins of the flesh than for any other reason."

6. Immodest Fashions: "Certain fashions are being introduced that offend Our Lord very much."

7. Sinful Marriages: "Many marriages are not good; they do not please Our Lord and are not of God."

8. Daily Rosary: "Say the Rosary every day to obtain peace for the world. And after each decade say the following prayer: 'O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of Thy mercy.'"

9. Prayer and Sacrifice: "Pray, pray a great deal, and make sacrifices for sinners, for many souls go to Hell because they have no-one to make sacrifices and pray for them."

10. Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary: "God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If people do what I tell you, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.

11. First Saturday Devotion: "I promise to help at the hour of death with the graces needed for salvation those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, go to confession, receive Holy Communion, say five decades of the Rosary and keep me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the mysteries, with the intention of making reparation to my Immaculate Heart."

12. World Peace: "Tell everybody that God gives His graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Tell them to ask graces from her, and that the Heart of Jesus wishes to be venerated together with the Immaculate Heart of Mary, for the Lord has confided the peace of the world to her... In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph, Russia will be converted and there will be peace."
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#25
Gabriel,

Well, that is basically how +Fellay finishes his talk: emphasizing our role, what we can do, doing penance, etc.

But this is indeed an interesting point. Maybe the consecration did happen, and that's why Russia seems to be having some sort of revival (but then this would imply a much deeper connection between the EO Churches and the one true Cathlic Church than we might at first conceive), but by failing in the other points we didn't get the peace and whatnot.

Still, the way its phrased it seems the triumph of the IH and the period of peace is deeply connected to the consecration of Russia. Are we ready to claim that Putin is the triumph of the Immaculate Heart?

Still this sounds like a mystery, so I'm on FB's camp on this one. We should be aware by now that there are stupid conspiracy theories around, because an imagined reality that is finite is more coherent to us than the real reality that is much above our comprehension. But still, we should be aware that to simply classify something as “conspiracy theory” is no argument at all and its actually used to dismiss serious stuff.

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#26
Pope John Paul got all the credit for the fall of communism, but I didn't hear him say:  "Mr Gorbechev tear down this wall"
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#27
(05-29-2015, 08:45 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Still this sounds like a mystery
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#28
(05-29-2015, 08:45 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Still this sounds like a mystery
I see no mystery. The message is clear. Incidentally, the BVM never  that the "Third Secret," had to be revealed to the world. Yet I bet more time is spent online by the people criticizing the Vatican about releasing the Third Secret than heeding the message of Fatima.  I think the only question that needs to be asked is to one's self. Are we saying the Rosary every day to obtain peace for the world? Are we heeding the call: "Pray, pray a great deal, and make sacrifices for sinners"? Each person can only answer for themselves.
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#29
(05-29-2015, 10:36 PM)Gabriel Serafin Wrote:
(05-29-2015, 08:45 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Still this sounds like a mystery
I see no mystery. The message is clear. Incidentally, the BVM never  that the "Third Secret," had to be revealed to the world. Yet I bet more time is spent online by the people criticizing the Vatican about releasing the Third Secret than heeding the message of Fatima.  I think the only question that needs to be asked is to one's self. Are we saying the Rosary every day to obtain peace for the world? Are we heeding the call: "Pray, pray a great deal, and make sacrifices for sinners"? Each person can only answer for themselves.

The only person criticizing here is you criticizing a bunch of us :)
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#30
(05-29-2015, 10:43 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: The only person criticizing here is you criticizing a bunch of us :)
I'm not criticizing anyone here; I'm talking about conspiracy-riddled blogs and websites.
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