Has Russia Been Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?
#41
(05-30-2015, 04:37 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: There's no proof at all that Russia has itself been specifically consecrated per the wishes of our Lady. That's the crux of the issue.  The Pope consecrated the world of which Russia is a part,but he did not specifically consecrate Russia by name. What I've never understood is just why on earth is it so hard for the Pope to simply ask his bishops to get together and specifically consecrate Russia, not the world? Why is that so hard? Russia is more Christian than any nation in the West, including Italy, so why should they be offended? They too have a devotion to our Lady, so what's the big deal?

Whatever you may think of Father Gruner and his apostolate they have time and again made a convincing case that the consecration was not done.

This... and I never understood either why Pius xii didn't when Russia wasn't really the global threat as much as today. What possibly could've kept him. He mentioned Russia once but no bishops in '52 - the world in '42 , no bishops here either. What on earth would stop him?
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#42
(05-30-2015, 02:16 PM)agnes therese Wrote:
(05-28-2015, 09:38 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: NO!!!!
Then Sr. Lucia lied.  Why?

There is another option:  Sister Lucia may never have said what has been attributed to her.

What is the evidence that Sister Lucia stated that Russia has been properly consecrated?  Is it something she said directly that can be proven, or is it merely from second hand sources?

If it is the latter, how do we know whether those sources are truthful?
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#43
(05-30-2015, 08:57 PM)Gabriel Serafin Wrote:
(05-30-2015, 06:42 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: where are all the promises, then? As I said, the way its phrased the triumph seems to be deeply connected to the consecration. So, is Putin the triumph of the IH?
The question is, what do you imagine the triumph looks like?

To this day, the Catholic Church remains illegal in Russia. 

It stretches credulity to the breaking point to believe that the Blessed Virgin, who happens to be a member of the Catholic Church, would think that "the triumph" would entail the continued outlawing of the very Church of which She is a member.

The idea that "the faith" is flourishing in Russia is naïve at best.  Exactly which "faith" is allegedly flourishing?  A schismatic faith?

Aren't you normally an anti-SSPX person?  Would you make the same claim that "the faith" is flourishing in Russia if the only priests in Russia were SSPX priests?

If not, then how can it be said that "the faith" is flourishing when the only faith allegedly flourishing is a schismatic church?

Regarding whether communism has disappeared from Russia, I suggest two books:  "The Perestroika Deception" and "New Lies For Old."  The author is a former KGB agent.  He adamantly maintains that communism is alive and well in Russia.

In fact, recent revelations regarding Liberation Theology and its genesis in Russia, specifically, the Russian Orthodox Church, dovetail with what the author of those two books has been saying for many years.
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#44
Correct the above statement to say that the Catholic Church is restricted, in some places barely tolerated, but not necessarily illegal.
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#45
(06-01-2015, 11:28 PM)DJR Wrote:
(05-30-2015, 02:16 PM)agnes therese Wrote:
(05-28-2015, 09:38 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: NO!!!!
Then Sr. Lucia lied.  Why?

There is another option:  Sister Lucia may never have said what has been attributed to her.

What is the evidence that Sister Lucia stated that Russia has been properly consecrated?  Is it something she said directly that can be proven, or is it merely from second hand sources?

If it is the latter, how do we know whether those sources are truthful?

Now some are saying that Russia having  already been consecrated in '84 but needs to be AGAIN because the 'era of peace' , having lasted 25 years, has come and gone, Russia is reverting back to being evil again so let's 're-consecrate' Russia again!! Unbelievable logic coming from the SpiritDaily neo catholic crowd.
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#46
I have just read some disturbing articles about Russia's new propaganda machine, which does not out-right censor, but questions everything to the point confusion and discouragement of the people. Another article mentionned something even more disturbing, that during the Victory Parade last month, the defence minister Sergei Shoigu made the sign of the cross as he was passing under the Kremlin's Savior Gate. That is a traditional gesture before going into battle, and hasn't been seen in Russia since before the revolution. Read here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...st-ukraine

Didn't the Vatican exorcist say that the chastisement will begin this fall? Looks like Russia is suiting up right on schedule.
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#47
(06-06-2015, 09:25 AM)xandratax Wrote: I have just read some disturbing articles about Russia's new propaganda machine, which does not out-right censor, but questions everything to the point confusion and discouragement of the people. Another article mentionned something even more disturbing, that during the Victory Parade last month, the defence minister Sergei Shoigu made the sign of the cross as he was passing under the Kremlin's Savior Gate. That is a traditional gesture before going into battle, and hasn't been seen in Russia since before the revolution. Read here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...st-ukraine

Didn't the Vatican exorcist say that the chastisement will begin this fall? Looks like Russia is suiting up right on schedule.

I have heard the same about September and beginning of The Chastisement, from the same source. It does, sadly, make sense, since Our Lady said there would be granted a "period" of Peace. The Chastisement was always, I think, a bit inevitable, but like Jesus said in the Gospel, there would be an easing for the sake of the elect.

This period of peace and this easing seem to mesh.

Most sadly, the world is spiraling towards an inevitable disaster, one Christ said would be so severe as never before seen on the earth, nor ever again...that's saying VOLUMES!! That means worse than even the Great Flood!

Yes, Russia has begun to return to its old ways, as a dog to its vomit. Ukrainian leadership have been warning of a soon to come Russian invasion and is mobilizing her forces. This is the area where the last two World Wars broke out, it would be foolish to think it couldn't happen again, except now, the world's forces are even more skilled and equipped to deal out mass death upon humankind and life in general.

Heaven help us all!!!

(06-06-2015, 08:19 AM)thomas7 Wrote: Now some are saying that Russia having  already been consecrated in '84 but needs to be AGAIN because the 'era of peace' , having lasted 25 years, has come and gone, Russia is reverting back to being evil again so let's 're-consecrate' Russia again!! Unbelievable logic coming from the SpiritDaily neo catholic crowd.

Not really so illogical as hopeful in the face of the odds against the likelihood of such an extension being granted.

BTW: The crack about "neo catholic crowd"? References please? I never thought of Michael Brown , nor his writings in such a manner.
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#48
Threads like this tend to make me doubt this whole story for a couple of reasons. On a spiritual level, I don't really see the point in worrying about the great chastisement, the Ball of Redemption, and world peace.

Politically, I think the manner in which apparitionists so readily accuse the one world power that has shown itself to be sympathetic to Christianity of "spreading her errors" (like what, defending real marriage?) and all the rest of it is troubling. If any country can be accused of spreading her errors around the globe, it's the United States, but by focusing so much on those evil "commies" in Russia, the apparitionists end up misreading the true state of the world today and as a result end up supporting countries and movements that are explicitly hostile toward the Church out of some misguided animus against Russia.

   
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#49
(06-06-2015, 06:19 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: Threads like this tend to make me doubt this whole story for a couple of reasons. On a spiritual level, I don't really see the point in worrying about the great chastisement, the Ball of Redemption, and world peace.

Politically, I think the manner in which apparitionists so readily accuse the one world power that has shown itself to be sympathetic to Christianity of "spreading her errors" (like what, defending real marriage?) and all the rest of it is troubling. If any country can be accused of spreading her errors around the globe, it's the United States, but by focusing so much on those evil "commies" in Russia, the apparitionists end up misreading the true state of the world today and as a result end up supporting countries and movements that are explicitly hostile toward the Church out of some misguided animus against Russia.

 

Spreading error like liberation theology. Its a fact that Russia spread errors.

About misreading contemporary events: its way too early to say what is going on. Its simple hubris to dismiss Putin skeptics based on what is reported by the media.
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#50

(06-06-2015, 08:19 AM)thomas7 Wrote: Now some are saying that Russia having  already been consecrated in '84 but needs to be AGAIN because the 'era of peace' , having lasted 25 years, has come and gone, Russia is reverting back to being evil again so let's 're-consecrate' Russia again!! Unbelievable logic coming from the SpiritDaily neo catholic crowd.

Not really so illogical as hopeful in the face of the odds against the likelihood of such an extension being granted.

BTW: The crack about "neo catholic crowd"? References please? I never thought of Michael Brown , nor his writings in such a manner.
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Michael Brown's site is the 'ecumenical National Enquirer' for catholics,  who's site promotes Medjugorje and literally anything that appears 'mystifying'.  Needless to say , he is not by any means a traditional catholic. 

So, belief in the idea that Russia 'was' consecrated and converted but decided it didn't like the status any longer so now it needs to be 're-consecrated'?  JPII didn't know if the consecration actually took effect, asked Lucy twice if it did, need the Assisi 'effect' to take hold, that didn't work so employed another round of 'peace talks' with Assisi again, that didn't take... all the while, during this 25 year 'era of peace' a third try at Assisi ...

I would say, the 'first' consecration of Russia NEVER occurred.
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