Making Sense out of Suffering for J Michael
#31
(06-23-2015, 08:24 PM)Melkite Wrote: I love and respect you as well.  So please, understand it's not personal when I say I long for the day your generation is gone from the earth.

Dude, I'm circumcised too, and guess what... I couldn't give a crap one way or another. Circumcised, uncircumcised, whatever man!
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#32
(06-23-2015, 08:24 PM)Melkite Wrote: I love and respect you as well.  So please, understand it's not personal when I say I long for the day your generation is gone from the earth.

BTW, I'm 34 years old too.
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#33
And seriously, Melkite, I'm saying this out of love. If you being circumcised is causing you this much anguish, your problem is not God. You seriously need to seek help from a counselor. I don't pretend to know what other ills you have suffered in your life, but if you are a person whose biggest complaint is circumcision, you seriously need to count yourself blessed.

Please, go to a good Catholic counselor who can help you put things back in perspective.
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#34
(06-24-2015, 10:01 AM)Papist Wrote: And seriously, Melkite, I'm saying this out of love. If you being circumcised is causing you this much anguish, your problem is not God. You seriously need to seek help from a counselor. I don't pretend to know what other ills you have suffered in your life, but if you are a person whose biggest complaint is circumcision, you seriously need to count yourself blessed.

Please, go to a good Catholic counselor who can help you put things back in perspective.

There are plenty of other things.  But those are all bearable.  This is the one that's unbearable to me.  Since JMichael didn't answer, would you tell the same thing to a woman who has had her genitals mutilated, that she is making a big deal out of nothing and needs counseling?

I was molested by my best friend from the time I was 9 until I was 16, and it has completely distorted and destroyed my ability to form healthy emotional bonds with other men.  That's a suffering.  And that is bearable to me in comparison. 
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#35
(06-24-2015, 10:49 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 10:01 AM)Papist Wrote: And seriously, Melkite, I'm saying this out of love. If you being circumcised is causing you this much anguish, your problem is not God. You seriously need to seek help from a counselor. I don't pretend to know what other ills you have suffered in your life, but if you are a person whose biggest complaint is circumcision, you seriously need to count yourself blessed.

Please, go to a good Catholic counselor who can help you put things back in perspective.

There are plenty of other things.  But those are all bearable.  This is the one that's unbearable to me.  Since JMichael didn't answer, would you tell the same thing to a woman who has had her genitals mutilated, that she is making a big deal out of nothing and needs counseling?

I was molested by my best friend from the time I was 9 until I was 16, and it has completely distorted and destroyed my ability to form healthy emotional bonds with other men.  That's a suffering.  And that is bearable to me in comparison.

It depends on the level of mutilation. If was the on the level of circumcision - which by the way neither prevents sexual function nor sexual pleasure - then yeah, I would say, "Get thee to a counselor."
Melkite, there is seriously something very unhealthy with this level of concern for one's genitals. You still have a penis; it still functions like it is supposed to, and you would be able to have sex if you wanted to. In fact, most American's find a circumcised penis to be more sightly anyway.

Now start looking outside yourself, love God and your neighbor, and you will find that just because Private Melkite does not wear a helmet, you can still live a very happy life.
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#36
(06-24-2015, 10:49 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(06-24-2015, 10:01 AM)Papist Wrote: And seriously, Melkite, I'm saying this out of love. If you being circumcised is causing you this much anguish, your problem is not God. You seriously need to seek help from a counselor. I don't pretend to know what other ills you have suffered in your life, but if you are a person whose biggest complaint is circumcision, you seriously need to count yourself blessed.

Please, go to a good Catholic counselor who can help you put things back in perspective.

There are plenty of other things.  But those are all bearable.  This is the one that's unbearable to me.  Since JMichael didn't answer, would you tell the same thing to a woman who has had her genitals mutilated, that she is making a big deal out of nothing and needs counseling?

I was molested by my best friend from the time I was 9 until I was 16, and it has completely distorted and destroyed my ability to form healthy emotional bonds with other men.  That's a suffering.  And that is bearable to me in comparison.

But we're not talking here about female genital mutilation which is of a different order of magnitude altogether compared to male circumcision as practiced in the western world in the 20th and 21st centuries.  You're using it to deflect.  We're talking about you and your circumcision.  I'm circumcised and in no way whatsoever consider it any kind of "mutilation".  In fact, I rarely even consider it at all.  What's to consider, anyway?  It was done when I was a few days old; I have no memory or recollection of it; it hasn't affected me psychologically or spiritually in any way whatsoever that I can think of or even have any kind of glimmering about; it hasn't affected me physically in any way--I've enjoyed a healthy (way too healthy, sometimes  :grin:) sex life, and have conceived 2 children.  So, what's the problem?  I can't compare my experiences with uncircumcised men nor can they compare theirs with me and other circumcised men.  Nor do I want or even care to.  It really is a total non-issue! 

Let me suggest that your issue goes way beyond the fact of your penis not having a foreskin, rather it's sourced much deeper, perhaps or even quite likely to the abuse you mention and you're focusing quite inappropriately on a physical manifestation that actually had nothing at all to do with that abuse other than that the same body part is involved.  Really, dear friend, if you haven't seen a therapist or counselor about these issues (none of which, as Papist mentions, really have anything to do with God) then I would highly and quite seriously recommend that you do.  If you have, given what you tell us I would suggest that either the therapist wasn't very good (good ones are very hard to find!) or that you didn't stick with it long enough to get to the bottom of the issues and resolve them.  Railing against God and your perception of His unfairness or cruelty ONLY serves to keep your attention as far away as possible from the real issues that must be worked on and resolved if you're to have any chance at all of any kind of happiness in this life. 

Wishing for the demise of my generation will get you nowhere at all.  We could all drop dead at 4 pm this afternoon and it will change absolutely nothing for you and won't bring your foreskin back.

It saddens me that you suffer so deeply but unless you begin to look at what the issues really are and begin to really resolve them you will only continue to do so.  There ARE people “out there” who can help.  You only need to determine that you really want that help and are willing to give up the things that distract your mind from the real issues, and then go find someone who can help you with this.  This one's up to you, mi amigo.

Now I've got to go mow the lawn, and on such a beautiful day, here, too!! :) :)
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#37
I would agree with J Michael: being circumcised has not been a problem in my life at all.
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#38
(06-24-2015, 11:46 AM)Papist Wrote: It depends on the level of mutilation. If was the on the level of circumcision - which by the way neither prevents sexual function nor sexual pleasure - then yeah, I would say, "Get thee to a counselor."
Melkite, there is seriously something very unhealthy with this level of concern for one's genitals. You still have a penis; it still functions like it is supposed to, and you would be able to have sex if you wanted to. In fact, most American's find a circumcised penis to be more sightly anyway.

This has to be qualified.  Does circumcision, on average, completely remove the sexual function or the sexual pleasure a man can experience?  No, of course not.  Does it diminish the sexual pleasure a man can experience and make him, to some degree, sexually dysfunctional?  It absolutely does.  Sexual function is more than poke, pump and spit, to be blunt.

(06-24-2015, 12:09 PM)J Michael Wrote: But we're not talking here about female genital mutilation which is of a different order of magnitude altogether compared to male circumcision as practiced in the western world in the 20th and 21st centuries.  You're using it to deflect.  We're talking about you and your circumcision.

Yes, the most talked about form of female genital mutilation in America, which is also the least practiced form over all, is physically much worse than the average American circumcision.  However, most female circumcisions practices are far less grotesque, and the women are proud of it because it is part of their culture.  Regardless, that the most horrendous physical form of female circumcision is objectively worse than the average form of male circumcision in America does not in any way negate the fully and equally shared human right to genital integrity.  I don't have to suffer the worst possible genital mutilation in order to have the right to not have my genitals altered at all.

Quote:I'm circumcised and in no way whatsoever consider it any kind of "mutilation".

I know you like to talk about how unintellectual you are, but I'm sure you can grasp the idea that just because you personally do not consider it to be a mutilation does not mean it objectively isn't one, right?

Quote:I've enjoyed a healthy (way too healthy, sometimes  :grin:) sex life,

Respectfully, 50 shades of grey seems like technicolor to someone who isn't even aware of the existence of red, blue, green, yellow, orange, purple or the millions of shades in between.

Quote:I can't compare my experiences with uncircumcised men nor can they compare theirs with me and other circumcised men. 

Men who were circumcised as adults can.  I don't want to get too detailed about my sexual past, but let's just say that I've had enough experience with both that I can observe we're missing quite a lot.  It's not that it doesn't have an effect on you; it's that you aren't even aware of the effect that it has.

Quote:Let me suggest that your issue goes way beyond the fact of your penis not having a foreskin, rather it's sourced much deeper, perhaps or even quite likely to the abuse you mention and you're focusing quite inappropriately on a physical manifestation that actually had nothing at all to do with that abuse other than that the same body part is involved.  Really, dear friend, if you haven't seen a therapist or counselor about these issues (none of which, as Papist mentions, really have anything to do with God) then I would highly and quite seriously recommend that you do.  If you have, given what you tell us I would suggest that either the therapist wasn't very good (good ones are very hard to find!) or that you didn't stick with it long enough to get to the bottom of the issues and resolve them.  Railing against God and your perception of His unfairness or cruelty ONLY serves to keep your attention as far away as possible from the real issues that must be worked on and resolved if you're to have any chance at all of any kind of happiness in this life. 

All I can really say to this is that you are wrong.  I guess I probably can't convince you of that.  The damage done by circumcision is a physical, scientifically verified reality, not a figment of one's imagination.  A therapist can no more fix that than he can make the sky orange or waves crash upside down.

Quote:Wishing for the demise of my generation will get you nowhere at all.  We could all drop dead at 4 pm this afternoon and it will change absolutely nothing for you and won't bring your foreskin back.

You took it personally.  I told you not to take it personally.  I don't want your generation gone because I think it will somehow resolve my pain.  I want your generation gone so that the ignorance on circumcision will stop now and our culture can look at uncircumcised physiology as natural and normal again, the way it's supposed to be.  I want your generation gone so that no one will be circumcised because their parents or doctors were influenced by your ignorance on this issue.
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#39
Melkite, seriously?


[Image: mountain-molehill.gif]
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#40
Melkite, the question you should ask yourself is the following: Am I still able to to have sex and orgasim, and is my peep intact enough that it would not keep someone from wanting to have sex with me?

If the answer is yes, then you are fine. Stop worrying about whether the dangley parts have a scarf.

And BTW, I know that you struggle with SSA like I do. But, from what I understand form conversation, most straight women don't find the penis to be a very exciting thing to look at in the first place. They only value it for the job it does in bed, so don't worry so much about what it looks like. If you ever marry according to the teachings of the Church and do have sex with a woman, she is not gonna have any care about whether you are circumcised or not.
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