Question about Malachi Martin's quote
#1
In "Hostage to the Devil", in a chapter dedicated to the general description of possible reasons why Satan rebelled, Martin asks:
Quote:Or did Lucifer, with angelic intelligence, foresee a destiny of human beings yet hidden from our human eyes - that after eons of development, when outer space is colonized in billions of galaxies, mankind will progress and evolve in spirit to a status we now know nothing of, and in which men and women will enjoy a freedom from matter but still be able to enjoy the beauty of this material world?
Is this orthodox? I mean, not that it might one day happen so, but that Martin seems to value that kind of humanity's future and find it positive? What does he mean by evolution in spirit and enjoying a freedom from matter? I know he was into stuff like Planet X and such, but have you got ideas on that?
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#2
Also, from the same book. Less controversial, but still:
Quote:As  a man,  [Jesus] lived for not more  than 50  years, as close as  we  can  calculate.
Is this accurate? Does it fit with the Bible to say that Jesus could live for 50 years?
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#3
I myself am intersted in this.

I have been wanting to read stuff by Malachi Martin as well but I have heard somethings that seem "heterodox" or at least outside of that which is commonly accepted.

As far as the second question I would rather side with those who say that he lived up to be 33 years old and that for this reason this number is the "perfect" number.
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#4
(07-03-2015, 07:24 PM)ArturoOrtiz Wrote: I myself am intersted in this.

I have been wanting to read stuff by Malachi Martin as well but I have heard somethings that seem "heterodox" or at least outside of that which is commonly accepted.

As far as the second question I would rather side with those who say that he lived up to be 33 years old and that for this reason this number is the "perfect" number.
I checked the age thing myself and on Catholic Encyclopedia there is mentioned that some saint had thought that public ministry of Jesus had lasted even 15 years. And as Jesus began it at the age of 'about 30', it could be 50 at His death. I'm not saying it was so (I highly doubt it) but technically Martin's claim was correct.
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#5
The quotation sounds like sci-fi nonsense; we aren't going to evolve into beings of pure energy or anything like that. Anyway, I've always been suspicious of Martin. I read Hostage to the Devil a while back, and many of the stories struck me as being, at the very least, highly embellished.
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#6
I'm not one to throw Teilhard de Chardin at people... but, this sounds like Teilhard de Chardin stuff  :P

Of course this is not orthodox.
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#7
(07-03-2015, 06:06 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: In "Hostage to the Devil", in a chapter dedicated to the general description of possible reasons why Satan rebelled, Martin asks:
Quote:Or did Lucifer, with angelic intelligence, foresee a destiny of human beings yet hidden from our human eyes - that after eons of development, when outer space is colonized in billions of galaxies, mankind will progress and evolve in spirit to a status we now know nothing of, and in which men and women will enjoy a freedom from matter but still be able to enjoy the beauty of this material world?
Is this orthodox? I mean, not that it might one day happen so, but that Martin seems to value that kind of humanity's future and find it positive? What does he mean by evolution in spirit and enjoying a freedom from matter? I know he was into stuff like Planet X and such, but have you got ideas on that?

sounds like just speculation to me, Jesuitical speculation for Lucifer's fall.  I don't think it is meant to be view as orthodox or heterodox.  Although he is sounding like a fellow in the 1950s who thought space colonization was a real probability in his lifetime.

As for the Jesus being 50, i remember being by the Salesian sisters when I was young that Jesus was somewhere between 33 and 50 when he died.  Certainly the more traditional view is 33, but Irenaeus states 50 (and remember he was a student of Polycarp who was a student of John).  33 is typically derived from Luke's narration that Jesus was 30 when he started his public ministry and then John mentions three passovers so simple math 30 + 3 = 33. 
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#8
I have always heard 33 and I have always known it to be referred as the perfect age if you will. Don't certain theologians hold the view that when we have our glorified bodies that we will look like when we were 33?

Also I have heard that individuals such as Saint Catherine of Sienna who died at age 33 to have died at such a perfect age since it resembles that of Christ.

Furthermore whenever I have seen pictures of Christ whether in his crucifixion or just in general they resemble someone in their mid 30s rather than someone at age 50.

I will have to look into the traditions that view Jesus as having had been 50 when he died.


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#9
(07-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: I'm not one to throw Teilhard de Chardin at people... but, this sounds like Teilhard de Chardin stuff  :P

Of course this is not orthodox.
Yeah, I was browsing the book and elsewhere Martin kind of sort of sounded like describing Teilhard as a great figure. Fr Martin was, well, highly untypical. Does someone know more about how he managed to combine traditionalism with being somewhat fascinated by this modernist?

"AntoniusMaximus" Wrote:sounds like just speculation to me, Jesuitical speculation for Lucifer's fall.  I don't think it is meant to be view as orthodox or heterodox.  Although he is sounding like a fellow in the 1950s who thought space colonization was a real probability in his lifetime.
I'm not referring to the example given by Martin itself, but rather the approach he's having. In my opinion his very positive about humanity being no longer bound to its bodies and stuff. Sounds gnostic.
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#10
Malachi Martin was a showboater plain and simple; he knew how to create an aura of the mysterious around his person. There's a priest I used to know who happened to be an exorcist who told me he confronted Martin over lunch in Rome about how over the top Hostage to the Devil was, and how he put too much emphasis on the power of satan against the will of the individual priest. He claimed Martin kind of weaseled his way out of saying much.

He was also said to be an adulterer, a spy for the Jews and a ex priest who cavorted around with Sedevacantist prelates like the late Archbishop Thuc. All in all an interesting character. His books are mostly a mix of the plausible along with the fantastic, all under an aura of unspeakable evil just behind the scenes and in the background. Windswept House comes to mind, filled as it is with a handful of good priests fighting against an inept John Paul II papacy and a cabal of sinister satanist prelates who ritually abuse a child and a dog in a satanic ceremony in order to weaken the power of the Church.

Martin definitely knew how to survive and create a name for himself in the post conciliar years, but take much of what he says with a grain of salt, especially his more fantastical stuff.
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