Question about Malachi Martin's quote
#11
Two words should be enough to tell you how trustworthy Malachi Martin was: Art Bell.
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#12
(07-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: I'm not one to throw Teilhard de Chardin at people... but, this sounds like Teilhard de Chardin stuff  :P

Of course this is not orthodox.

What makes it even odder is that in his book "The Jesuits"  Martin devotes a considerable amount of time taking Chardin's views apart brick by brick.

As an aside I met a man who knew Martin quite well over a period of 25 years or so, and from what he told me it was pretty evident that Martin liked to play to the crowd and yank people around. He also stressed that Martin was completely sincere in his motives (even if his actions didn't always add up) and that he was freakishly intelligent. To me it always sounded like Martin's major flaw was that because he was so smart he could often rationalize some of his more colorful actions.

He's an interesting character, but I'm always careful not to get too emotionally invested in either side of the "Martin: For Good or Evil?" debate
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#13
(07-04-2015, 10:15 AM)MeanGene Wrote:
(07-03-2015, 09:08 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: I'm not one to throw Teilhard de Chardin at people... but, this sounds like Teilhard de Chardin stuff  :P

Of course this is not orthodox.

What makes it even odder is that in his book "The Jesuits"  Martin devotes a considerable amount of time taking Chardin's views apart brick by brick.

As an aside I met a man who knew Martin quite well over a period of 25 years or so, and from what he told me it was pretty evident that Martin liked to play to the crowd and yank people around. He also stressed that Martin was completely sincere in his motives (even if his actions didn't always add up) and that he was freakishly intelligent. To me it always sounded like Martin's major flaw was that because he was so smart he could often rationalize some of his more colorful actions.

He's an interesting character, but I'm always careful not to get too emotionally invested in either side of the "Martin: For Good or Evil?" debate

Well, for what it's worth I've got a soft spot for him. I know that as far as that book The Jesuits goes there's a lot of truth to it, and no doubt with Windswept House and Hostage to the Devil.

We also can't forget that Teilhard was a Jesuit just like Malachi Martin and that his pseudo science pseudo evolutionary theology cast a spell over a lot of people. He's still quite popular, if not through his obtuse original works, but as filtered through theologians as diverse as Joseph Ratzinger to Ronald Rollheiser. His influence is arguably vast. Everyone from Malachi Martin to Ratzinger to the Orthodox monk Seraphim Rose saw fit to speak of him or challenge his ideas.

Isn't that strange how the hyper intelligent tend to be a bit off kilter? At any rate I hope Malachi Martin is enjoying his heavenly reward. God forgive him for being a bit strange and for saying and doing some of the things he said and did. The times he was asked to live in were perhaps the darkest in the history of the Church. They were devastating enough to make the best and brightest among us go crazy at times.
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#14
(07-03-2015, 06:34 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: Also, from the same book. Less controversial, but still:
Quote:As  a man,  [Jesus] lived for not more  than 50  years, as close as  we  can  calculate.
Is this accurate? Does it fit with the Bible to say that Jesus could live for 50 years?

Jesus was born around the time of the death of Herod the Great, which was in about 4BC, and He was crucified in 33AD so a lifespan of around 40 makes more sense.
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#15
(07-04-2015, 08:25 AM)Melkite Wrote: Two words should be enough to tell you how trustworthy Malachi Martin was: Art Bell.

So Father Martin isn't trustworthy because he was interviewed several times back in the 1990s by a guy who used to do a show about UFOs, pseudoscience, paranormal topics, etc.? ???
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#16
If you have Amazon Prime you can watch three episodes of William Buckley's Firing line with Malachi Martin as the guest in two of them (and the questioner in a 3rd).  last night I watched the one from the earlier 70s (73 I think) about his book 'Jesus Now' and his views are not what I consider traditional.  Not sure if he had a change of heart along the way (the later episodes he seemed much more traditional).

here is a good summary of each episode in which he appears:

https://ecclesialvigilante.wordpress.com...ring-line/
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#17
Something a bit more obvious that we haven't considered is the fact that Martin was trained as a Jesuit, which usually entails a certain type of approach to engaging with the world. In the Spiritual Exercises Ignatius remarks, “That both the giver and the maker of the Spiritual Exercises may be of greater help and benefit to each other, it should be presupposed that every good Christian ought to be more eager to put a good interpretation on a neighbor’s statement than to condemn it. Further, if one cannot interpret it favorably, one should ask how the other means it. If that meaning is wrong, one should correct the person with love; and if this is not enough, one should search out every appropriate means through which, by understanding the statement in a good way, it may be saved.” 

It seems that because of his early run in with the inquisition after his initial conversion Ignatius developed a bit of an aversion to the "heresy under every rock" approach to Evangelical work. I think any Catholic (or Christian for that matter) can see that the rule is a sound one so long as the reality of truth is recognized. Sadly in our present age I think the rule is often used to dialogue endlessly and provide cover for all sorts of foolishness. At least when I look at some of the more odd statements of Fr. Martin, Pope Francis, or any number of contemporary Jesuits it seems that an effort to follow this rule is the motivating factor behind it all.

It by no means excuses all, or even some of the statements in question, but it does at least shed some light on where a lot of this silliness finds its origin.
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#18
I read that book and I don't remember Martin holding Telihard to any high regard. The only part I remember was one of possession cases he talked about was a guy who was all into opening spiritual gateways and seems to be obsessed with Telihards theology. If anything he seemed to give a warning of the dangers of Telihards views. I could be wrong however I skipped around the book. It didn't really help me sleep at night... Quite frightening book


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