Despite Latino Pope, U.S. Hispanics Still Attracted to Evangelicalism
Houellebecq seems to perceive where this is going in South America, which is apostatizing to evangelicalism (which seems to suggest that there's something wronger at play, not just an assimilation thing).

Quote: Revue des Deux Mondes – Is it because Europe is not religious that your book crosses borders so well? Do you think that if there were an extremely powerful Catholic Church your book would have had such a success?

Michel Houellebecq – No, in effect. We find it even hard to imagine clearly what a strong Catholic Church could look like, because it's something so far away. I for instance have never seen it in a working state.

Revue des Deux Mondes – In South America?

Michel Houellebecq – No, in South America, the Evangelicals are in the process of winning. I don't actually know a truly Catholic country. I have never visited a true Catholic country.

Funny thing is, South America (and I suspect parts of the US) is in precisely the same state France is in, that is ”the masses themselves are very promising. There are stunning manifestations, but the hierarchy is inactive.

And every good priest is sabotaged by his own bishop, and the pope doesn't have the orthodox bishops' backs. I suspect if the hierarchy had more courage and were more faithful there would be an enough critical mass of people to actually make the Church strong.

Frankly, I don't think this absurd nihilism dominating liberal democracies would be such a huge monster that would take centuries to start decaying if the hierarchy was orthodox. I know I sound like I'm contradicting my other posts, but a lot of things are in place.
But of course, the flow of heretico-sodomitic persons into the priesthood doesn't seem to end, so this is futile. Alas, ”As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

(08-02-2015, 09:20 PM)iona_scribe Wrote: What can we do to reach out to them and bring them home?

I'm trying to brush up on my Spanish and make some friends in my neighborhood, but I'm suddenly aware of a huge religion-related gap in my Spanish vocabulary.

I think the key is to treat them human like everyone else.  I feel when it comes with minority groups is according to liberals especially liberal priests, that they are not just special but more special.  It is a kind of coddling and infantilism that will ultimately breed resentment, entitlement, and rejection.

Truth is that despite wide range of cultural differences, all humans operate very similar.  We must eat, sleep, drink, the things that our common interests should be basis for community not what is different.
(07-31-2015, 12:42 AM)Optatus Cleary Wrote: I know this is anecdotal, but I live and teach in majority-Hispanic communities. A few facts I would point out:

1. Most children of immigrants speak better English than Spanish. Most grandchildren of immigrants speak very little Spanish at all.
2. In overwhelmingly Hispanic communities, the Catholic Church is often a Spanish-speaking institution. Spanish-speaking parents take mostly English-speaking children to Spanish catechism classes, confirmation classes, Mass, etc.
3. Many of my students, as a result, have no English-language Catholic vocabulary. They have an English Protestant vocabulary (from general surrounding culture and from Evangelical peers) and Spanish Catholic vocabulary. Their lives are mostly led in English, and thus Protestantism seems more real to them than Catholicism (which seems like the religion of superstitious old grandmothers.)
4. Ignorance of Church teaching is rampant. A Catholic child asks questions, and the ready answers come from surrounding Evangelicals. The institutional Church is too large, and the priest too busy, to answer. Evangelicals, by contrast, are ready and eager to provide simple, easy-to-understand answers.

Absolutely fascinating. I had no idea at all about this! What so sucks about all this is that the old way of doing things, instead of the old liberal-mollycoddling, would solve this problem, especially if the liturgy were in Latin.  RCIA and religious classes in schools would be in English, the language the 2nd and 3rd generations speak, and the Mass they'd attend would be the same one they'd attended in Mexico.

Something simply has to be done about catechesis, and catechesis has to expand to include apologetics with regard to Protestant arguments, and to include, too, solid understanding of the secular issues that have been vexing us lately -- why the Church teaches as She does about acting on homosexual desires, how to deal with homosexuals (the human beings) and homosexuality (the psychological disorder), a good explanation about why the Church is against homosexual "marriage," sex outside of marriage, contraception, and divorce).

That is one thing I would so love to do:  come up with a complete RCIA course -- and I mean complete. And with all liturgical references including the trad style (which would be listed FIRST) and the NO (which I hope disappears altogether "soon enough"). And, of course, it'd be stuffed with art :P

Quote:“I experienced the presence of God. It was tangible. I’ve never experienced that feeling in my life ever before,” she said.

This says a lot too. As the way goes with most evangelicals, much of which is derived from Pentecostalism, as well as Calvinism, they depend on these subjective emotional responses. They think that since they are getting these strong responses, that they are "experiencing God." But not only is this hilariously dangerous to begin with since emotions are/can be deceiving to begin with, but if they stop having these emotional experiences, they think they have lost God. Anyone who bases his or her faith on an emotional experience is asking for trouble. All these people who were interviewed, I will be very surprised if they don't suffer great spiritual trauma due to an eventual subsiding of the emotional experiences. Because it never stays high forever.

This is a massive flaw in evangelicalism and Pentecostalism to begin with. They become slaves to their emotional reactions. They think they are experiencing God, but they really aren't. God isn't some magician who must give an emotional experience to His followers in order to satisfy them. God is God. His ways are not of our own.
People are generally attracted to strong personalities. How often do you see priests with strong personalities that absolutely grasp you when they do their homilies? Even with good and holy priests, it's rare. Yet, protestants seem to have this in spades. I'm not sure why, but it's much more common. I guess it may have to do with the fact that just about anyone can become a protestant minister, make big bucks and do their thing. Whereas being a Catholic priest requires a much greater sacrifice that many aren't willing to make.

Of course we can also point to the fact that Catholic priests rarely even challenge the laity. It's typically just talking about how God loves you and how God is merciful. People eventually just tune that stuff out. How often do you listen to a homily and really think about it after you leave Mass? Contrary to popular opinion, many people do want to be challenged when they go to church.

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