(08-14-2015, 04:40 PM)J Michael Wrote: Might I suggest that you read, very, very carefully, THE book on homeopathy.  It looks superficially easy and light, but, trust me, it is exceptionally profound, deep, and can be quite dense despite it's small size.  You won't really understand homeopathy without having read this and made a serious attempt at understanding it. 

Gotta go now.... :) :)

I have a number of homeopathy sites bookmarked, but I've never read the Organon. I just found out that it's available to read or download at the Internet Archive.
You can always try Hildegard von Bingen's remedies, and not have to worry about whether they are Catholic or not.  :P
(08-14-2015, 05:07 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: Thanks for the reply... I understand the difference between homeopathy and naturopathy, I am not speaking of other types of naturopathy like herbal remedies. I'm only speaking of homeopathy according to Hahnemann. The reason I mentioned naturopathy is just because my friend is a naturopath but she has done homeopathy.

If homeopathy actually works but the philosophy doesn't, I'm not saying it can't operate by different principles, but it seems like the philosophy is somehow very foundational in terms of how Hahnemann worked on it...

I tried doing some more research. It seems from Catholic Encyclopaedia that Stahler was an Animist. Which is the belief I think that everything has a spiritual soul and the Church condemned this view. Was the idea of the life force from this? Or do they mean something physical? But what animates our bodies as humans is a spirit .. So something here is confusing. Reading the views of some of these people can remind one of Western esoteric movements that the Church is against. Is it just the language or the ideas? Did Hahnemann borrow from them or not? That is what I'm trying to find out.

Simply saying it works doesn't resolve my confusion because even about that there is tons of debate :(

I think you might be getting hung up on language.  But, maybe not.  Let me put it this way:
1. Hahnemann was a medical doctor, amongst other things

2. He saw that many of the treatments and remedies being used at the time had some pretty nasty side-effects (sound familiar?).

3. To try to minimize the side effects he tried giving smaller or more dilute doses of the medicinal substances he was using. 

4. He found that in so doing the side effects diminished but so did the healing properties and responses--most of the time.

5. He then hit upon the notion of succussing the diluted medicine and found that not only did the side effects diminish but the healing properties increased.  It may be tucked away in one of his bios somewhere that I missed it, but I really don't know how or why he decided to add succussion to dilution.

6. Two things are clear though, from my research AND my practice: a) the most important thing is the similarity principle--Similia Similibus Curantur; and b) when a remedy is well-indicated according to the principles Hahnemann elucidates in the Organon and there are no other obstacles to a cure, the remedy will act.  It will work.  I have seen this over and over and over and over and over and over again in practice.

7. Given 6-a above, I have also seen remedies work that were NOT diluted and succussed, but were very similar according to the law of similars and were administered in very small doses.  Dilution/succussion (known in homeopathy as "potentization") is not a strict requirement, unless dealing with really toxic substances.

Your statement, "If homeopathy actually works but the philosophy doesn't...", really makes no sense.  Homeopathy works because of the "philosophy".  The two are inseparable.  Well...depending, again, on what you mean by "philosophy"
J Michael, what I mean by philosophy is all that I wrote on susceptibility to disease being caused by disruptions in the vital life force and curing them by administering not particles but the "message" of the particles. How does this relate to our faith? We don't speak of a vital life force, we believe that the body is animated by the soul which can be pure even if the body is ill... Regarding the "message" of the particles I don't know what to think, some relate it to scientific physical energies but as Christians we don't speak of manipulating any spiritual energies. Maybe homeopathy doesn't speak of that and if it works maybe that's due to some scientific reasons. But I'm concerned with the philosophy of the relation between the physical and spiritual and also matter and energy.
You are speaking of dilution and 'like cures like' but what I found out is that often the dilution is done to such an extent that no particles remain. So what do you think about that? What does the healing if no particles remain? That is what I'm speaking about. Was there something you learned about what actually happens if there is not even a single particle? Is there a scientific reason or some metaphysical one? This is the question for me because as Christians we don't speak of metaphysical "energies" that we manipulate. Our response to the spiritual world is prayer. Is homeopathy speaking of something more physical? How?
(08-16-2015, 02:01 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: You are speaking of dilution and 'like cures like' but what I found out is that often the dilution is done to such an extent that no particles remain. So what do you think about that? What does the healing if no particles remain? That is what I'm speaking about. Was there something you learned about what actually happens if there is not even a single particle? Is there a scientific reason or some metaphysical one? This is the question for me because as Christians we don't speak of metaphysical "energies" that we manipulate. Our response to the spiritual world is prayer. Is homeopathy speaking of something more physical? How?

Like cures like can occur with or without the dilution/succussion (has to be BOTH dilution AND succussion).  Just diluting something will not necessarily make it efficacious in the way we would want.  I mentioned that above.

Dilution to the point that no particles remain?!?!  :O :O :O  Actually, it's to the point (and beyond) that no molecules of the original substance remain  :) :).  Yes, we use those potencies, as they are called, all the time.  And yes, they work, when well-indicated. 

What does the healing?  The patient and his/her "vital force", however that is understood.  The remedies only act to stimulate the healing properties of the organism to heal itself.  Look at it this way:  When you are ill you have what we call a "natural disease".  Your body attempts to overcome it and heal itself.  If it is successful, then you are healed.  If it isn't, you continue in illness and perhaps even worsen.  What homeopathy does is to introduce what we call an "artificial disease", i.e. the most similar remedy, which is actually stronger (really, more potent) than the natural disease, thereby stimulating the body's own healing mechanism(s)--aka "the vital force"(?)--into healing itself.  There are other analogies, but that, I think is the best one and the one Hahnemann himself uses in The Organon.

What actually happens?  This is where conventional medical "science" starts throwing wobblies--I think the final answer, all waffling and speculation aside, is that we do not know. :O :O ??? ??? :O :O ??? :O ??? ???  How can that be??  Well, quite easily. :)  We could could take about "energy" and "energies" and "water memory" and all manner of other things, but...we just don't know.  Unfortunately, materialistic scientists of the medical variety find that unacceptable and a basis for their claim that homeopathy is just quackery or mumbo-jumbo or, at best, placebo.  But the rub is in the fact that 1000's of homeopaths all over the world have a totally different experience.  Are they biased?  Probably.  But then, who isn't?

If you can't live with the "we don't know how it works" or "we cannot explain it in terms and concepts currently available to us and our language" then I suggest you avoid it.

And I would also reiterate that if you want to more fully understand it, read The Organon--very, very carefully, with an open mind.  Then read it again.  Then maybe read some commentaries.  Then read it again.

By the way, the dilution does NOT HAVE to be done to the extent that no molecules of the original substance remain (which is the 12X or 12C potencies), for the remedy to work just wonderfully---if it is the most well-indicated remedy.  Experience has shown, however, that quite frequently the higher potencies (more diluted and succussed) will work when a lower potency will not.  Why?  Dunno..... :crazy:

I would also add that just because we cannot see something doesn't mean it isn't there. 

Blessed Teresa of Calcutta was known to have used homeopathy and homeopathic remedies in her clinic. :)

I found this interesting article for you:
Quote:Is Homeopathy A “New Age” Practice?

Dear Mr. Mueller, I have been learning about homeopathy for the last three years and attending a study group for two years. In recent months, several Christian friends have spoken to me about my interest in homeopathy. They feel that homeopathy is part of the New Age Movement. I’ve never read anything in my materia medica or my other reference books that would lead me to believe that. I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on the subject.

Signed, S. S., Norwalk, Ct, USA

I don’t think the thousands of children who were protected from polio through homeopathic immunization during the 1957 polio epidemic in Buenos Aires knew much about the New Age movement. I doubt very much that the patients who recovered from typhoid and malaria after receiving homeopathic medicines from Mother Teresa’s dispensary in Calcutta cared much about these theories, either. The civil war soldiers treated by homeopathic doctors for gangrene and gunshot wounds had never even heard of the New Age movement. The Christian woman I consulted with last week, whose twenty-year long struggle with rheumatoid arthritis ended in complete recovery, is certainly not interested in these theories!

Homeopathy has saved the lives of millions of people of all races, ethnic groups and religions, especially during scarlet fever, smallpox, influenza, polio, cholera, typhoid and yellow fever epidemics. It has been practiced worldwide for more than two centuries and is recognized as a legitimate medical practice in many countries, including the United States.
In this country, the production and marketing of homeopathic medicines is regulated by the FDA, and the medicines are produced in accordance with the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States, ever since the Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act of 1938 was passed. They are derived mostly from natural sources, and they are usually given in attenuated form based on the similarity of symptoms. The object of homeopathic treatment is to stimulate the innate healing responses of the body.

Homeopathic medicine is neither a movement, nor does it have anything to do with New Age. It is a tried and true medical practice and pharmaceutical science. It differs significantly from conventional medicine. It aims at curing diseases, rather than merely medicating the symptoms. It cures with minute doses of specially prepared drugs to activate the body’s natural healing and restorative mechanisms.

Homeopathy is compatible with Christian beliefs. Perhaps for that reason many Christians including clergy have studied and used homeopathy. It works with God’s design in nature rather than against it. It adheres to the tenet to do no harm – ever! Conventional medicine, on the other hand, acts against the body’s God-given healing mechanisms. For example, the body creates a fever to fight infections better. Conventional drugs bring down the fever and end up slowing down the recovery. Homeopathy cures infections by stimulating the immune response, which aids in the recovery.

The widespread use of anti-inflammatories, anticonvulsants, antidepressants, etc. shows that today’s conventional treatment aims mainly at inhibiting vital functions. To suppress symptoms, conventional doctors prescribe drugs in high doses that can cause harmful effects and occasionally even kill.

Considering that over 100,000 Americans die each year from drug reactions (FDA figures). If homeopathic treatment were more widely available, it would go a long way in preventing those deaths. Homeopaths, however, select medicines so carefully, that they are able to work with such small doses that no toxic drug reactions ever occur.

In the United States, at the beginning of the last century, one quarter of physicians had training in homeopathy. There were 22 homeopathic medical schools. The Iowa State Supreme Court upheld homeopathic immunizations against smallpox in 1907, after a study had found they were more effective than conventional vaccinations. That was before the Rockefellers of Standard Oil launched an assault on homeopathy with the Flexner Report in 1910. In 1939 the Rockefeller family founded the drug trust, a conglomerate of pharmaceutical manufacturers. Today less than 1% of doctors study homeopathy.

Incidentally, the Rockefellers have been major supporters of the New Age movement. Homeopathic medicine, on the other hand, has had very few real friends among the elitist power behind that movement.

On the contrary, the Rockefeller Foundation, the AMA, and the Pharmaceutical Advertising Council, have spends millions to keep people from finding out about homeopathy. This does not come as a surprise. Any medicine that cures takes money out of their pockets. Homeopathy can prevent surgery in many cases. It can often prevent blood transfusions. It renders vaccinations obsolete. It cures most chronic disorders by restoring health. The medicine promoted by the pharmaceutical industry, on the other hand, makes people dependent on drugs, often for life, and often causes more problems than it cures.

While some starry eyed followers of the New Age movement may still think that the “coming New Age” will be one of true healing, the truth is, the movement’s high priests have no such thing in mind. If freedom from lifelong treatment and prevention of disease were really part of the New Age agenda, I could only welcome that. But I have no reason to believe it is. The powers behind the New Age movement will continue to enforce a medicine of global mandatory vaccinations, surgeries, C-sections, blood transfusions, genetic alterations, abortions, artificial insemination, sterilization, birth control, euthanasia, mind altering drugs, along with the omnipresent “miracle” drugs.

However, in the future, they may market these drugs as “natural.” And in hospitals, the temples of modern “New Age” medicine, you may not be allowed to pray while under the hands of the New Age high priests of medicine. They may allow some “guru” to come to your bed and try hands on healing. But only as long as you take your medicine! At the same time they may pass a law that prayer is no longer permitted in hospitals, and tell you that only tranquilizer drugs must be used from now on in lieu of prayer!

I hope some of that helps.

I am a Catholic Christian.  I use and will continue to use homeopathy to help those whom I can overcome illness to the extent that that is possible for them.  If the means, i.e. homeopathy, is somehow sinful, then I can only pray that my intention, to help heal the sick and in so doing do no harm, will be seen by God as greater than the supposed sin of the method.

I don't think I can add much more than I've already written without giving you a full-length course on homeopathy, principles and practice.  And, sorry...but I ain't got time for that.

I am neither an academic scientist, a theologian, or a philosopher.  Just an ordinary crackpot who has an interest in helping sick people get better who has found a very efficacious way to do so that does not at the same time poison or otherwise harm the patient.  There are many ways to treat illness--homeopathy is one of them, one that works when applied correctly, and one that works without harmful side-effects.

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