Battle Lines are Being Drawn, plus more Confusing Statements From Francis
(09-09-2015, 04:10 PM)Qoheleth Wrote:
(09-09-2015, 03:34 PM)Dominicus Wrote: I agree with Clare. Alhough many of Pope Francis' actions are not ideal and he certainly isn't my favorite pope, he is trying hard to do what he believes to be right. He may be the visible head of the church but that doesn't mean that he has to be impeccable, he is a good man with a great love of God but he is just that, a man. He is just as much of a victim of all of this modernism and liberalism as the rest of us if even more so. We must continue to give him the benefit of the doubt as it's all we can do lest we become Schismatics or worse. We must pray for him and all of the other bishops and possibly make some sort of petition, aside from that we must be patient and trust that God knows what he is doing.

Kind of wondering how this applies to...

Matthew 7:15-17Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

A Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit.

Pope Francis does bear good fruit, but because he has a tendency to speak off the cuff, his message gets hijacked by the media and twisted into whatever they want it to sound like. I think it's important to pay attention to the good fruit he's bearing, rather than the fruit that certain aspects of the media are trying to spoil.

Take Laudato Si, for example. I've almost finished reading it and he does a great job of circumventing the message that a lot of more radical environmentalists try to push ("control the population," etc) by decrying abortion and mentioning respect for every human life. A lot of people make it out to just be a climate change encyclical when it is much more than that.

I think it's important to give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt, as Dominicus said.
What you said FB.....i can relate

"I'd also say that all men need prayers no matter what, but especially those in places of authority. I still pray for Francis but I'm often not sure whether I am or even if I want to be in communion with him. I'm brutally honest with all this stuff too.

At the end of the day ( and our lives) we all have to try to be honest with ourselves and with God. I pray that he'll not be too hard on any of us for choosing whatever path we take in the Christian life provided we really pray about and do some serious soul searching before we make our way.

quote from FormerBuddhist
FB, Qoheleth, RF,  Dave01---not much more I can add to what you good folks have said, and you've been speaking my mind.  Thanks!
I hadn't really thought of it that way, formerbuddhist. I suppose that back then even regular priests would really only know of the pope through their bishop  and the laity probably barely knew he existed. However that doesn't justify disobediance, if the pope says that something is okay regarding canon law then we are bound to allow it to an extent. We can discourage it and we can protest it but we are not above the pope, he has the keys. Although beautiful churches and polyphony are good, they do not make the church, they are accessories. The heart of the Church is the Eucharist, so long as a church has that, it is the Church. I understand that this matter of annulment is quite a bit different from perhaps the length of the communion fast but the pope is trying to squeeze orange juice out of lemons here, he is in a very tough place.
Quote:" the pope is trying to squeeze orange juice out of lemons here, he is in a very tough place."

Yea  i would say he is in a tough place.... but who knows maybe the  god of surprises will help him out :P

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