The decline of marriage is a good thing
#11
It is so sad what has happened to marriage in my lifetime. Heartbreaking is the word. Hard hearts have caused most of it. Point: Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
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#12
(10-04-2015, 03:39 PM)GRA Wrote:
(09-17-2015, 10:56 AM)PrairieMom Wrote: You do, in some respects, need to keep in mind that these arguments concerning marriage that atheists make are in fact quite valid when you remove God. There is very little motivation to get married when you believe it's a union of convenience, or of personal fulfillment, or whatever the current cultural belief about marriage is these days. Even among non-Catholic Christians, there's common perception that marriage essentially becomes a license to have a sexual partner, and it's not about convenants (and how could it be, to someone who has no idea of that concept?), or the good of children or spouses, etc.

True, they do have valid points. This is where secularism reasoning rears its nihilistic head. This is why I see atheists getting married to other atheists as bizarre (just n facebook, an old family friend's daughter had a Viking-theme wedding).  Why even fight for "marriage equality"? Then again this all comes back the "give meaning" to things even without God mentality. Why should I take it seriously and why should I respect it?

Hmm...your last question gave me something to ponder.

In human history, not all marriages were done out of religious tradition, but marriage was recognized by the State as a common good for society, and the place to create a family. That being said, marriage between a man and a woman in itself has positive meanings attached to it. This is regardless of religion or culture.
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#13
(10-04-2015, 03:23 PM)GRA Wrote:
(09-25-2015, 05:59 PM)introvert Wrote: Yikes! This person probably read (gasps) the manosphere.

Haha! I wouldn't be surprised. The manosphere can be a strange place (eg. MGTOW: Men Go There Own Way and  "pick-up" artists types). When just last year I started to really take my faith more seriously I also stumbled upon what is called the "manosphere." Some helpful blogs here and there, and other blogs were just plain depressing.

Please, please, please stay off the manosphere! It's not a good place for devout, decent men who want to marry. Many of the blogs are plain scary (as in theologically unsound off the deep end) and many of those guys have wounded all over them. They are enough to scare anyone away from marrying.

I too, stumbled across the manosphere after I became Catholic looking for a place where there was an alternative right. Unfortunately, there is no good "alternative" and it's better to stick to the faith and God. Sacred scripture has more useful advice than the blogs.
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#14
(10-10-2015, 03:19 AM)introvert Wrote: Please, please, please stay off the manosphere! It's not a good place for devout, decent men who want to marry. Many of the blogs are plain scary (as in theologically unsound off the deep end) and many of those guys have wounded all over them. They are enough to scare anyone away from marrying.

I too, stumbled across the manosphere after I became Catholic looking for a place where there was an alternative right. Unfortunately, there is no good "alternative" and it's better to stick to the faith and God. Sacred scripture has more useful advice than the blogs.

Have you read this? http://nypost.com/2015/10/08/why-i-gave-...-monogamy/ Prominent pick-up artists Neil Strauss has admitted that promiscuity has brought him only emptiness and depression.
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#15
Once you find a nice feminine woman who acts like a woman and let's you act like a man you might think of marriage. I admit I've only had this type of relationship with foreign women, and by foreign I mean like actual foreign ladies who are new to the USA and were formed in a different culture.  Mine is a nice Fillipina and I'll tell you I will never go back to a western woman, ever  after this experience.  It's been going on close to three years I think.

That being said I know it's not the right Catholic thing to say but I love having one woman for a long term thing but have zero desire to have kids or get tied down to marriage. I'm radically skeptical of the whole thing. I'm not looking to juggle multiple women either, that's too exhausting,I just don't want that kind of finality that comes with something as shaky and ephemeral as marriage, especially not with some western woman.

Some of the criticisms of marriage in the West seem pretty valid to me. Most men get taken for a ride by domineering western women who treat them like dogs, emasculate them than take them to the cleaners in the courts. Why would any man want to go through that? It happened to my father, I saw it first hand growing up. I want no part in it.

I wouldn't totally discount the so called manosphere, as there are some decent things there for men, but definitely don't swallow everything you read there. Men need to learn to act like men and do manly things without apology. If anything the manosphere in some of its advice tries to pump you up to do just that. In other places it's just ridiculous, new agey and off the deep end.

It's sad that real marriage is declining, but let's be honest, when you look around can you blame men for not wanting that level of risk?

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#16
(10-10-2015, 03:19 AM)introvert Wrote: Please, please, please stay off the manosphere! It's not a good place for devout, decent men who want to marry. Many of the blogs are plain scary (as in theologically unsound off the deep end) and many of those guys have wounded all over them. They are enough to scare anyone away from marrying.

I too, stumbled across the manosphere after I became Catholic looking for a place where there was an alternative right. Unfortunately, there is no good "alternative" and it's better to stick to the faith and God. Sacred scripture has more useful advice than the blogs.

The manosphere will exist for as long as the womanosphere does. It is a necessary evil that keeps the unnecessary evil of feminism in check as best it can. If you want to minimize the manosphere then go after the womanosphere. The manosphere didn't emerge in a vacuum. It was a response to feminism.
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#17
(10-10-2015, 10:03 AM)divinesilence80 Wrote:
(10-10-2015, 03:19 AM)introvert Wrote: Please, please, please stay off the manosphere! It's not a good place for devout, decent men who want to marry. Many of the blogs are plain scary (as in theologically unsound off the deep end) and many of those guys have wounded all over them. They are enough to scare anyone away from marrying.

I too, stumbled across the manosphere after I became Catholic looking for a place where there was an alternative right. Unfortunately, there is no good "alternative" and it's better to stick to the faith and God. Sacred scripture has more useful advice than the blogs.

The manosphere will exist for as long as the womanosphere does. It is a necessary evil that keeps the unnecessary evil of feminism in check as best it can. If you want to minimize the manosphere then go after the womanosphere. The manosphere didn't emerge in a vacuum. It was a response to feminism.

Feminism is even more harmful. I have wasted many a day arguing needlessly with women who clearly don't care about killing unborn fetuses, divorce, human physiology, etc. The feminists and masculinists are simply two sides of the same coin, and that's not a coin I'm interested in tossing into my life.
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#18
(10-10-2015, 08:18 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Once you find a nice feminine woman who acts like a woman and let's you act like a man you might think of marriage. I admit I've only had this type of relationship with foreign women, and by foreign I mean like actual foreign ladies who are new to the USA and were formed in a different culture.  Mine is a nice Fillipina and I'll tell you I will never go back to a western woman, ever  after this experience.  It's been going on close to three years I think.

That being said I know it's not the right Catholic thing to say but I love having one woman for a long term thing but have zero desire to have kids or get tied down to marriage. I'm radically skeptical of the whole thing. I'm not looking to juggle multiple women either, that's too exhausting,I just don't want that kind of finality that comes with something as shaky and ephemeral as marriage, especially not with some western woman.

Some of the criticisms of marriage in the West seem pretty valid to me. Most men get taken for a ride by domineering western women who treat them like dogs, emasculate them than take them to the cleaners in the courts. Why would any man want to go through that? It happened to my father, I saw it first hand growing up. I want no part in it.

I wouldn't totally discount the so called manosphere, as there are some decent things there for men, but definitely don't swallow everything you read there. Men need to learn to act like men and do manly things without apology. If anything the manosphere in some of its advice tries to pump you up to do just that. In other places it's just ridiculous, new agey and off the deep end.

It's sad that real marriage is declining, but let's be honest, when you look around can you blame men for not wanting that level of risk?

I think the reason the manosphere has gained the traction it did is because it provided an accessible place for people to get information. When the divorce rates were rising, men were getting conned by Jezebels, families getting torn apart, etc. the internet provided a place for the manosphere and these collective experiences. See, I'm not against a place for men to share their experiences, but when it becomes anti-marriage, anti-family, and anti-God is where there's a problem.

It is TRUE marriage is declining and it's certainly not respected. I am embarrassed by the way my sex has treated men. It's awful to see how women believe they're entitled to divorce because their husbands won't acquiesce to their demands. At the same time, didn't men allow these things? Did men not allow feminism? It's easy to sit there and point out all the errors with American women, but American women of today did not come out from a vacuum.

My husband and I are of the camp men should men and women should be women. It's all our responsibility to build each other up in a godly manner, and sometimes online forums full of angry, bitter people isn't the way to go (talking about feminists, too).
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#19
(10-15-2015, 10:03 PM)introvert Wrote: I think the reason the manosphere has gained the traction it did is because it provided an accessible place for people to get information. When the divorce rates were rising, men were getting conned by Jezebels, families getting torn apart, etc. the internet provided a place for the manosphere and these collective experiences. See, I'm not against a place for men to share their experiences, but when it becomes anti-marriage, anti-family, and anti-God is where there's a problem.

It is TRUE marriage is declining and it's certainly not respected. I am embarrassed by the way my sex has treated men. It's awful to see how women believe they're entitled to divorce because their husbands won't acquiesce to their demands. At the same time, didn't men allow these things? Did men not allow feminism? It's easy to sit there and point out all the errors with American women, but American women of today did not come out from a vacuum.

My husband and I are of the camp men should men and women should be women. It's all our responsibility to build each other up in a godly manner, and sometimes online forums full of angry, bitter people isn't the way to go (talking about feminists, too).

AH! You've asked the million dollar question here. I think there are 2 congruent answers:

1) Unfortunately, men suffer feminism because there is a grain of truth to the old saying that "men (some, not all) will say / do anything to get in a woman's pants." Feminism was more or less born in the liberal education system where "beta males" end up who are of the stereotypical "nerd variety." Since the "beta males" typically can't woo a woman with their lack of musculature they seduce women with a pumping up of their ego. In essence they take a play from the playbook of "alpha females" who build up the lunk headed "alpha males." It's very easy to manipulate someone when you inflate their ego until they turn on you of course....

2) At the end of the day men cannot and will not "control women" so whether we "allow" feminism or not is irrelevant. If women want to organize and gripe there is little to nothing we can do about it. Lots of men (and women) have attempted to shut down feminism but at the end of the day there is no rewriting the human heart.
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#20
(10-16-2015, 09:46 PM)divinesilence80 Wrote: AH! You've asked the million dollar question here. I think there are 2 congruent answers:

1) Unfortunately, men suffer feminism because there is a grain of truth to the old saying that "men (some, not all) will say / do anything to get in a woman's pants." Feminism was more or less born in the liberal education system where "beta males" end up who are of the stereotypical "nerd variety." Since the "beta males" typically can't woo a woman with their lack of musculature they seduce women with a pumping up of their ego. In essence they take a play from the playbook of "alpha females" who build up the lunk headed "alpha males." It's very easy to manipulate someone when you inflate their ego until they turn on you of course....

2) At the end of the day men cannot and will not "control women" so whether we "allow" feminism or not is irrelevant. If women want to organize and gripe there is little to nothing we can do about it. Lots of men (and women) have attempted to shut down feminism but at the end of the day there is no rewriting the human heart.

Ha! The bolded line-- that is just too rich. I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that! I agree with you wholeheartedly on the first point.

As to the second-- I was under the impression "back in the day," when men were the ones who set the rules, women had to abide by them or suffer consequences. Example-- in the 1950's and 1960's, if a woman divorced her husband and tried to find housing, she was denied because she was the one who did the divorcing. If a woman had sex with a woman outside of marriage and had a baby as a result, she was shamed for out of wedlock motherhood. These were things where men did not put up with shenanigans, but neither did a lot of wise women because they knew better.

You've touched a note there with rewriting the human heart. As I've said before, I see the manosphere and feminism as two sides to the same coin. Even the Christian manosphere sites are highly questionable because they too, embrace "men's rights activist" tenants. However, I think humans can choose to rewrite their own hearts if they are willing to consider they've been wrong and wish to change. Sometimes this has to be forced, and sometimes this is done freely. I have a feeling much of it will be forced through societal changes later on in my lifetime, or after it.
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