What is the purpose of head covering?
#31
1 Timothy 2 speaks of ministry and worship, and in that context, a woman is said to be subject to a priest insofar as she cannot be ordained. So here man has authority as a priest over women. 1 Cor 14 forbids women to preach in church because the sacred ministry belongs to men, so again priests have authority over women insofar as they are sacred ministers. But clearly this would apply to lay men as well.

1 Cor 11, where St. Paul talks about veiling, says that woman is the glory of man, and that man is the head of woman. Interestingly, commentators and theologians have usually taken this to mean that man is superior in some aspects of his nature compared to woman and that woman was made to help man as Genesis said. It also means that under certain circumstances, women are to submit to men, such as husbands and priests. They never say that this verse means that a woman should blindly submit to a man just because he is a man. The larger context of the verse also reveals that we're talking about divine worship again, so it makes sense that because men can be priests and husbands, women submit to men insofar as the men exercise these capacities.
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#32
(03-17-2016, 05:25 PM)richgr Wrote: 1 Timothy 2 speaks of ministry and worship, and in that context, a woman is said to be subject to a priest insofar as she cannot be ordained. So here man has authority as a priest over women. 1 Cor 14 forbids women to preach in church because the sacred ministry belongs to men, so again priests have authority over women insofar as they are sacred ministers. But clearly this would apply to lay men as well.

1 Cor 11, where St. Paul talks about veiling, says that woman is the glory of man, and that man is the head of woman. Interestingly, commentators and theologians have usually taken this to mean that man is superior in some aspects of his nature compared to woman and that woman was made to help man as Genesis said. It also means that under certain circumstances, women are to submit to men, such as husbands and priests. They never say that this verse means that a woman should blindly submit to a man just because he is a man. The larger context of the verse also reveals that we're talking about divine worship again, so it makes sense that because men can be priests and husbands, women submit to men insofar as the men exercise these capacities.

Okay, I took some time to think about this topic and gave it a break for a little.

I understand the submission in certain contexts, but is the purpose of a headcovering to demonstrate the family structure? For instance, why don't women cover out in public? Why only in Mass?

I guess I don't think there is one definitive, final answer to this question. I can't find anything in teaching about what the purpose of headcovering is, which is a little frustrating. I'd like to find one, clear answer. Sometimes I get into mild arguments with Protestants who practice headcovering, and it's hard to back up one's claims without actual "here is the answer" proof. Protestants also stress the submission to a man's authority a lot, and some of them don't believe a woman should be uncovered in public, though I'm hard-pressed to find anything about that in the Church.
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#33
(04-04-2016, 02:21 PM)introvert Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 05:25 PM)richgr Wrote: 1 Timothy 2 speaks of ministry and worship, and in that context, a woman is said to be subject to a priest insofar as she cannot be ordained. So here man has authority as a priest over women. 1 Cor 14 forbids women to preach in church because the sacred ministry belongs to men, so again priests have authority over women insofar as they are sacred ministers. But clearly this would apply to lay men as well.

1 Cor 11, where St. Paul talks about veiling, says that woman is the glory of man, and that man is the head of woman. Interestingly, commentators and theologians have usually taken this to mean that man is superior in some aspects of his nature compared to woman and that woman was made to help man as Genesis said. It also means that under certain circumstances, women are to submit to men, such as husbands and priests. They never say that this verse means that a woman should blindly submit to a man just because he is a man. The larger context of the verse also reveals that we're talking about divine worship again, so it makes sense that because men can be priests and husbands, women submit to men insofar as the men exercise these capacities.

Okay, I took some time to think about this topic and gave it a break for a little.

I understand the submission in certain contexts, but is the purpose of a headcovering to demonstrate the family structure? For instance, why don't women cover out in public? Why only in Mass?

I guess I don't think there is one definitive, final answer to this question. I can't find anything in teaching about what the purpose of headcovering is, which is a little frustrating. I'd like to find one, clear answer. Sometimes I get into mild arguments with Protestants who practice headcovering, and it's hard to back up one's claims without actual "here is the answer" proof. Protestants also stress the submission to a man's authority a lot, and some of them don't believe a woman should be uncovered in public, though I'm hard-pressed to find anything about that in the Church.

I think you're looking at it too rigorously. Look at head covering more simplistically.  We cover out of love for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament at the Holy Mass. That is all. It's because we love Him and we believe it is pleasing to Almighty God. What else could possibly matter?
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#34
(04-21-2016, 08:36 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(04-04-2016, 02:21 PM)introvert Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 05:25 PM)richgr Wrote: 1 Timothy 2 speaks of ministry and worship, and in that context, a woman is said to be subject to a priest insofar as she cannot be ordained. So here man has authority as a priest over women. 1 Cor 14 forbids women to preach in church because the sacred ministry belongs to men, so again priests have authority over women insofar as they are sacred ministers. But clearly this would apply to lay men as well.

1 Cor 11, where St. Paul talks about veiling, says that woman is the glory of man, and that man is the head of woman. Interestingly, commentators and theologians have usually taken this to mean that man is superior in some aspects of his nature compared to woman and that woman was made to help man as Genesis said. It also means that under certain circumstances, women are to submit to men, such as husbands and priests. They never say that this verse means that a woman should blindly submit to a man just because he is a man. The larger context of the verse also reveals that we're talking about divine worship again, so it makes sense that because men can be priests and husbands, women submit to men insofar as the men exercise these capacities.

Okay, I took some time to think about this topic and gave it a break for a little.

I understand the submission in certain contexts, but is the purpose of a headcovering to demonstrate the family structure? For instance, why don't women cover out in public? Why only in Mass?

I guess I don't think there is one definitive, final answer to this question. I can't find anything in teaching about what the purpose of headcovering is, which is a little frustrating. I'd like to find one, clear answer. Sometimes I get into mild arguments with Protestants who practice headcovering, and it's hard to back up one's claims without actual "here is the answer" proof. Protestants also stress the submission to a man's authority a lot, and some of them don't believe a woman should be uncovered in public, though I'm hard-pressed to find anything about that in the Church.

I think you're looking at it too rigorously. Look at head covering more simplistically.  We cover out of love for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament at the Holy Mass. That is all. It's because we love Him and we believe it is pleasing to Almighty God. What else could possibly matter?

Yes, I understand that. My issue though is when I see or hear people who are Catholic postulating other meanings or purposes of headcovering, and it creates a lot of confusion.

For example-- I participate in a group for younger generation Catholics. One of the women there told me she veils and people for some reason interpret her veiling as some kind of weird submission thing going on...despite the fact she isn't married (she's discerning religious life). They're looking at this young single girl, wondering what she's doing because of all the ideas out there that veiling is about submitting to a man, it's about modesty, covering your hair to not tempt or distract men (yes, I've unfortunately seen MEN say that), etc.

I do have a habit of overthinking things. At times.
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#35
(04-22-2016, 02:30 AM)introvert Wrote:
(04-21-2016, 08:36 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(04-04-2016, 02:21 PM)introvert Wrote:
(03-17-2016, 05:25 PM)richgr Wrote: 1 Timothy 2 speaks of ministry and worship, and in that context, a woman is said to be subject to a priest insofar as she cannot be ordained. So here man has authority as a priest over women. 1 Cor 14 forbids women to preach in church because the sacred ministry belongs to men, so again priests have authority over women insofar as they are sacred ministers. But clearly this would apply to lay men as well.

1 Cor 11, where St. Paul talks about veiling, says that woman is the glory of man, and that man is the head of woman. Interestingly, commentators and theologians have usually taken this to mean that man is superior in some aspects of his nature compared to woman and that woman was made to help man as Genesis said. It also means that under certain circumstances, women are to submit to men, such as husbands and priests. They never say that this verse means that a woman should blindly submit to a man just because he is a man. The larger context of the verse also reveals that we're talking about divine worship again, so it makes sense that because men can be priests and husbands, women submit to men insofar as the men exercise these capacities.

Okay, I took some time to think about this topic and gave it a break for a little.

I understand the submission in certain contexts, but is the purpose of a headcovering to demonstrate the family structure? For instance, why don't women cover out in public? Why only in Mass?

I guess I don't think there is one definitive, final answer to this question. I can't find anything in teaching about what the purpose of headcovering is, which is a little frustrating. I'd like to find one, clear answer. Sometimes I get into mild arguments with Protestants who practice headcovering, and it's hard to back up one's claims without actual "here is the answer" proof. Protestants also stress the submission to a man's authority a lot, and some of them don't believe a woman should be uncovered in public, though I'm hard-pressed to find anything about that in the Church.

I think you're looking at it too rigorously. Look at head covering more simplistically.  We cover out of love for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament at the Holy Mass. That is all. It's because we love Him and we believe it is pleasing to Almighty God. What else could possibly matter?

Yes, I understand that. My issue though is when I see or hear people who are Catholic postulating other meanings or purposes of headcovering, and it creates a lot of confusion.

For example-- I participate in a group for younger generation Catholics. One of the women there told me she veils and people for some reason interpret her veiling as some kind of weird submission thing going on...despite the fact she isn't married (she's discerning religious life). They're looking at this young single girl, wondering what she's doing because of all the ideas out there that veiling is about submitting to a man, it's about modesty, covering your hair to not tempt or distract men (yes, I've unfortunately seen MEN say that), etc.

I do have a habit of overthinking things. At times.

I know it stinks that people have to read so much into it. Ultimately it isn't important what people think, only what God thinks.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#36
"Lol, cups and swords. Very cute! Men are sacred, too, right? We just show reverence in different ways because our function is different."

that thought makes me think double entendare, like little kids telling not so holy giggle worthy things like we did in catholic school growing up or gross things you say while you hope the teacher is turned and not hearing you

Look, my 2 cents as a guy and what I take away from it is, you go to church the house of God, who gave us his best and all to the last drop of water, and blood, why would not not try to go above the normal to adorn yourself with nice clothing and a vail if at all possible?

Women have the abillity to give life, Men who called by God to the priesthood, give the bread of eternal life.

and all that is holy is vailed it is said, Right?

Plus I am a lover of history linniage and heritage.  I love it when the ladies wear something ancestral, like a babushka, of the slavic catholics like the polish or chech, or a scarf like the germans and vineyard workers of the italians, remindes me of pretty but strong and industral like rosie the riveter and yet still feminin.

OR the ladies that would in times past wear a nice hat when out and about.
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