Mass or Greenpeace reunion?
#1
I was shocked at the mass I just attended! Most of it was dedicated to an exhortation to "protect the environment from climate change". My jaw dropped! They even had an ecological activist exhorting us to sign a petition and to change our habits. I refused to sign the petition, and refused to recite the prayers made for the occasion.

The activist was from an organism called "Development and Peace". Looking at their website (http://www.devp.org/en), it seems to be the branch of the Canadian Catholic church devoted toward solving poverty and other social problems.

I don't have anything toward these goals in and of themselves, but just what is this doing in a mass? If I wanted to listen to Greenpeace, I'd to go Greenpeace! I found it completely inappropriate and almost left the mass in disgust. Why isn't the Church criticizing people's sins and exhorting people to repent instead of becoming the pawns of radical leftist activists who push all this "climate change" propaganda? This isn't evangelism, it's nonsense!

If you look at their website... they feature non-christian liberal activists such as Naomi Klein... it really doesn't look good to me. It looks like yet another example of the church being infiltrated by radical Marxist activists. It doesn't surprise me that the Pope himself would exhort Christians to do this considering his background. This sort of stuff is apparently very common in Latin America.

What is happening to the Church? sad
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#2
Honestly, I don't think Marxism is all that closely associated with environmentalism. Even today, a lot of more old-fashioned Marxists see ecological concerns as a distraction from the real issue of class conflict. Certainly, Marxist regimes don't have the greatest track record in this regard. More generally, while I agree that a myopic focus on "social justice issues" is a bad thing, there is obviously a place for addressing how Catholics ought to respond to contemporary issues in light of Catholic social teaching, so I don't it is entirely out of bounds to occasionally hear about something like the environment, especially when one considers the possible consequences of things like climate change and the particular vulnerability of the poor to its potential effects. 
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#3
Well, there are plenty of flavors to Marxism. And one of those is certainly of the Green variety (really, most green parties admit it openly).

Now, this is the "official" Catholicism as seen by the "official" branches of most episcopal conferences. For instance, check out the official, bishop's conference approved, Brazilian catholic youth. Yes, these folks get to talk to the pope and will decide matters in the "synodal church".  LOL
Just stick with some ecclesia dei parish/chapel, or even SSPX.
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#4
chesterton said, ""FOR the obstinate reminder continued to recur: only the supernatural has taken a sane view of Nature. The essence of all pantheism, evolutionism, and modern cosmic religion is really in this proposition: that Nature is our mother. Unfortunately, if you regard Nature as a mother, you discover that she is a step-mother.  The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother:  Nature is our sister.  We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate. This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshippers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved."

it is good to respect and care for this planet God has given us, but we must also remember that God is in control. 

everyone wants to go on and on about globarlwarning this, globalwarning that, but no one will ditch their air conditioning and minivans.  i know i can't

chesterton also said“If there is one thing worse that the modern weakening of major morals, it is the modern strengthening of minor morals.”

it is no accident that people freaked out about that lion being "murdered" in "cold blood" by some dentist in africa right when all those viral videos were coming about planned parenthood trafficking human body parts.  it was a nice little diversion to distract us from the fact that millions of babies are being slaughtered and the callousattitude toward human life that is so pervasive in our culture.

there is nothing wrong with being upset about the killing of the lion.  there's nothing wrong with having opinons on minor moral issues, but the problem is sweating the small stuff and ignoring the big, glaring problems of our time

i'm on an email list for brooklyn homeschoolers, it's mostly a secular hippie crowd.  a lot of these families are into positive discipline and child-led schooling.  i consider myself a proponent of such things myself--my wife and i are anti corporal punishment, and we try to teach virtue and good behavior through example and guidance without rewards and punishments.  we have done mostly Montessori child led homeschooling.  however, i look at many of these people on our brooklyn homeschoolers list, and many of them are pro abortion.  many of them started their families via IVF.  many of them are very confused about what constitutes a family.    many are GLBT parents, some with "gnder creative" kids

i can think what i think about corporal punishment, but i can understand that abortion is several orders of magnitude worse.  in our time, it is the bigger problem.  so is the crisis of the family, which this synod is only worsening.  how could a person be against spanking a child, but OK with murdering a child in their mother'swomb.  it makes no sense.  how can you be concerned with what is best for a child, when you are OK with depriving them of one of their most basic human rights, which is the knowledge of their own biological mother and father

there is nothing wrong with being concerned over minor moral issues such as animal rights, the care of children, whether women should wear pants.  i like to buy organic clothes and fair trade stuff, i think social justice is something catholics should be concerned withwithout worrying about being typecasted as a pinko commie.  i do think to a degree it is all interconnected. but there is a hierarchy and when we can get the big moral problems under control, it becomes easier to solve the minor problems. 
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#5
(10-25-2015, 12:37 AM)Chestertonian Wrote: chesterton said, ""FOR the obstinate reminder continued to recur: only the supernatural has taken a sane view of Nature. The essence of all pantheism, evolutionism, and modern cosmic religion is really in this proposition: that Nature is our mother. Unfortunately, if you regard Nature as a mother, you discover that she is a step-mother.  The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother:  Nature is our sister.  We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate. This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshippers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved."

it is good to respect and care for this planet God has given us, but we must also remember that God is in control. 

everyone wants to go on and on about globarlwarning this, globalwarning that, but no one will ditch their air conditioning and minivans.  i know i can't

chesterton also said“If there is one thing worse that the modern weakening of major morals, it is the modern strengthening of minor morals.”

it is no accident that people freaked out about that lion being "murdered" in "cold blood" by some dentist in africa right when all those viral videos were coming about planned parenthood trafficking human body parts.  it was a nice little diversion to distract us from the fact that millions of babies are being slaughtered and the callousattitude toward human life that is so pervasive in our culture.

there is nothing wrong with being upset about the killing of the lion.  there's nothing wrong with having opinons on minor moral issues, but the problem is sweating the small stuff and ignoring the big, glaring problems of our time

i'm on an email list for brooklyn homeschoolers, it's mostly a secular hippie crowd.  a lot of these families are into positive discipline and child-led schooling.  i consider myself a proponent of such things myself--my wife and i are anti corporal punishment, and we try to teach virtue and good behavior through example and guidance without rewards and punishments.  we have done mostly Montessori child led homeschooling.  however, i look at many of these people on our brooklyn homeschoolers list, and many of them are pro abortion.  many of them started their families via IVF.  many of them are very confused about what constitutes a family.    many are GLBT parents, some with "gnder creative" kids

i can think what i think about corporal punishment, but i can understand that abortion is several orders of magnitude worse.  in our time, it is the bigger problem.  so is the crisis of the family, which this synod is only worsening.  how could a person be against spanking a child, but OK with murdering a child in their mother'swomb.  it makes no sense.  how can you be concerned with what is best for a child, when you are OK with depriving them of one of their most basic human rights, which is the knowledge of their own biological mother and father

there is nothing wrong with being concerned over minor moral issues such as animal rights, the care of children, whether women should wear pants.  i like to buy organic clothes and fair trade stuff, i think social justice is something catholics should be concerned withwithout worrying about being typecasted as a pinko commie.  i do think to a degree it is all interconnected. but there is a hierarchy and when we can get the big moral problems under control, it becomes easier to solve the minor problems.

Some great points there Chesterton.

I like to believe I feel about the same. I love fair trade stuff, especially coffee, and I love the splendor of Creation and see no reason why wanting to preserve as much of it as possible is somehow communist or indicative of earth worship. There's nothing wrong with wanting to stop exploitation of the earth, human trafficking or any other such cause that's normally considered a bit liberal.

As for me I'm a bicycle commuter and even here in Florida I do not use my air conditioning most the time. After years of working outdoors without it what can I say,I'm acclimated to the heat, although I'll turn it on every now and than if I can't sleep.

I love being car free, as it saves money, and I get to stay fit by riding everywhere.

That being said there is a danger that the Church can be too focused on worldly goals. I'm definitely not a fan of the new UN style " World Days" that have slowly crept up on the modern churches liturgical calendar, nor the sometimes one sided this world only focus of many Church initiatives and pronouncements. It seems like Paul VI started the whole Roman Catholic Church as a partner to the UN sort of thing.



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#6
It's Development and Peace. That's enough of an explanation for me. Although they're supposed to be "Catholic", they been caught supporting pro-abortion groups in the developing world.

I suppose that's the "peace" part of development.

We refuse to give them money anymore, although we supported them for many years as they are endorsed by the Canadian Conference of Bishops. We give our money to Chalice instead, which has an excellent reputation even in the secular world, is faithful to Catholic teachings, and is making a visible difference.
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#7
(10-25-2015, 10:46 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(10-25-2015, 12:37 AM)Chestertonian Wrote: chesterton said, ""FOR the obstinate reminder continued to recur: only the supernatural has taken a sane view of Nature. The essence of all pantheism, evolutionism, and modern cosmic religion is really in this proposition: that Nature is our mother. Unfortunately, if you regard Nature as a mother, you discover that she is a step-mother.  The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother:  Nature is our sister.  We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate. This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshippers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved."

it is good to respect and care for this planet God has given us, but we must also remember that God is in control. 

everyone wants to go on and on about globarlwarning this, globalwarning that, but no one will ditch their air conditioning and minivans.  i know i can't

chesterton also said“If there is one thing worse that the modern weakening of major morals, it is the modern strengthening of minor morals.”

it is no accident that people freaked out about that lion being "murdered" in "cold blood" by some dentist in africa right when all those viral videos were coming about planned parenthood trafficking human body parts.  it was a nice little diversion to distract us from the fact that millions of babies are being slaughtered and the callousattitude toward human life that is so pervasive in our culture.

there is nothing wrong with being upset about the killing of the lion.  there's nothing wrong with having opinons on minor moral issues, but the problem is sweating the small stuff and ignoring the big, glaring problems of our time

i'm on an email list for brooklyn homeschoolers, it's mostly a secular hippie crowd.  a lot of these families are into positive discipline and child-led schooling.  i consider myself a proponent of such things myself--my wife and i are anti corporal punishment, and we try to teach virtue and good behavior through example and guidance without rewards and punishments.  we have done mostly Montessori child led homeschooling.  however, i look at many of these people on our brooklyn homeschoolers list, and many of them are pro abortion.  many of them started their families via IVF.  many of them are very confused about what constitutes a family.    many are GLBT parents, some with "gnder creative" kids

i can think what i think about corporal punishment, but i can understand that abortion is several orders of magnitude worse.  in our time, it is the bigger problem.  so is the crisis of the family, which this synod is only worsening.  how could a person be against spanking a child, but OK with murdering a child in their mother'swomb.  it makes no sense.  how can you be concerned with what is best for a child, when you are OK with depriving them of one of their most basic human rights, which is the knowledge of their own biological mother and father

there is nothing wrong with being concerned over minor moral issues such as animal rights, the care of children, whether women should wear pants.  i like to buy organic clothes and fair trade stuff, i think social justice is something catholics should be concerned withwithout worrying about being typecasted as a pinko commie.  i do think to a degree it is all interconnected. but there is a hierarchy and when we can get the big moral problems under control, it becomes easier to solve the minor problems.

Some great points there Chesterton.

I like to believe I feel about the same. I love fair trade stuff, especially coffee, and I love the splendor of Creation and see no reason why wanting to preserve as much of it as possible is somehow communist or indicative of earth worship. There's nothing wrong with wanting to stop exploitation of the earth, human trafficking or any other such cause that's normally considered a bit liberal.

As for me I'm a bicycle commuter and even here in Florida I do not use my air conditioning most the time. After years of working outdoors without it what can I say,I'm acclimated to the heat, although I'll turn it on every now and than if I can't sleep.

I love being car free, as it saves money, and I get to stay fit by riding everywhere.

That being said there is a danger that the Church can be too focused on worldly goals. I'm definitely not a fan of the new UN style " World Days" that have slowly crept up on the modern churches liturgical calendar, nor the sometimes one sided this world only focus of many Church initiatives and pronouncements. It seems like Paul VI started the whole Roman Catholic Church as a partner to the UN sort of thing.

Why is it the business of the church to promote tangential worldly goals and to parrot what the likes of Greenpeace are saying? Do you think 50 years ago when most Catholics had much more moral integrity you would have had to deal with ecological sermons at the mass and even a prayer for ecology?

I can't remember the last time I saw anything in a mass that wasn't complete slush when it comes to moral values. I understand why so many people become Evangelicals, or go to another denomination that is not afraid to call sin sin.

For leftists, it is give an inch, they'll ask for a mile. You can give in on one thing and they'll chip away at your relentlessly.
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#8
The problem is not that the Church is a sponsor of civilization (or, as the vulgo likes to call it, worldly goals). Indeed, the Church, being the fulness of him that filleth all in all we shouldn't be surprised the she appears to be a natural mother of civilization, as if she was created for this end. As Leo XIII writes

Quote:The Catholic Church, that imperishable handiwork of our all-merciful God, has for her immediate and natural purpose the saving of souls and securing our happiness in heaven. Yet, in regard to things temporal, she is the source of benefits as manifold and great as if the chief end of her existence were to ensure the prospering of our earthly life. And, indeed, wherever the Church has set her foot she has straightway changed the face of things, and has attempered the moral tone of the people with a new civilization and with virtues before unknown. All nations which have yielded to her sway have become eminent by their gentleness, their sense of justice, and the glory of their high deeds.

The problem, rather, is that many in the Church are abandoning her ways and adopting the world's doctrines, which are foreign to the Church, and cannot lead but to corruption and destruction--maybe they do believe the calumnies raised against the Church that she is an enemy of civilization. Indeed, some prelates don't even seem to possess any faith at all.

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#9
(10-28-2015, 04:52 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: The problem is not that the Church is a sponsor of civilization (or, as the vulgo likes to call it, worldly goals). Indeed, the Church, being the fulness of him that filleth all in all we shouldn't be surprised the she appears to be a natural mother of civilization, as if she was created for this end. As Leo XIII writes

Quote:The Catholic Church, that imperishable handiwork of our all-merciful God, has for her immediate and natural purpose the saving of souls and securing our happiness in heaven. Yet, in regard to things temporal, she is the source of benefits as manifold and great as if the chief end of her existence were to ensure the prospering of our earthly life. And, indeed, wherever the Church has set her foot she has straightway changed the face of things, and has attempered the moral tone of the people with a new civilization and with virtues before unknown. All nations which have yielded to her sway have become eminent by their gentleness, their sense of justice, and the glory of their high deeds.

The problem, rather, is that many in the Church are abandoning her ways and adopting the world's doctrines, which are foreign to the Church, and cannot lead but to corruption and destruction--maybe they do believe the calumnies raised against the Church that she is an enemy of civilization. Indeed, some prelates don't even seem to possess any faith at all.

This is a good point.  When it first came out, Rerum Novarum was criticized the same way, as being too focused on temporal issues and systemic problems.  It can and should be an and/both situation since man is both body and spirit and a social being at that.
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