Europe: The Muslims are not to blame.
#11
I think that in spite of all of the madness, Ecclesia Dei and Summorum Pontificum have opened the door to many Catholics including those in the mainstream to open themselves up to tradition. I know a few younger priests in the Archdiocese of NY who are quite orthodox minded and have an interest in the Latin Mass. Even at St. Joseph's Seminary (about 30 minutes from where I live) where all of these young priests are formed, they can (if they desire) learn the Latin Mass. It certainly isn't frowned upon (except maybe by their older pastors once they get out of seminary). I know some of these young priests served at the Latin Mass in formation, I even attended a Solemn High Mass when a couple of them were in their diaconate. A few months ago, another group of young priests offered a Solemn High Mass for the feast of Our Lady of Carmel. Maybe the AD of NY is different than other places, but to me either way, it shows some hope in the traditional movement. It shows hope that eventually it can spread to where it's less of a small niche movement and is adapted more in whatever is left of the mainstream.

I personally feel that most of the young people who are left years from now will be more in line with the traditionalist movement. Whether it will still be called that or not.
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#12
(10-27-2015, 07:16 PM)introvert Wrote: It might have to do with the fact no one's having babies. The religious aren't having enough children to even continue their own communities.

I think contraception has a lot to do with it. I don't find it surprising that many of the white Europeans are big on contraceptives. After all, they're supposedly overpopulating the world. Now we see the consequences of using contraceptives in the western world. Just about every doctor prescribes birth control to young girls (11 or 12 years of age) and we teach about pregnancy as if it's some sort of disease. You mean, you can get PREGNANT if a penis goes into a vagina?  Shocked And then we teach that that baby (ie a human person) is just a "blob of cells," and the baby magically becomes a live human being only after coming out of the womb. Really? Huh?

I used to work with an individual (a Muslim, by the way; though a lapsed one) who thought this very same way. I found out later after I changed employers that he cheated on his wife, left her and his 3 children, and went to chase after a woman in a different country.

But yes, empty churches in Europe is a sad thing. North America and Europe are quickly descending into immoral cesspools of hedonism+secularism, with Islam on the other end of the spectrum. Both Islam and secularism/liberalism make great allies. My guess is that the native, "white" European populations throughout Europe will either become extinct or intermixed with whatever foreigners immigrate/invade, or become Muslims. The empty churches will either become mosques, lay derelict, or worse, turned into museums (am I the only one who thinks turning old churches into museums is a horrible idea? It turns our faith into something like as if it is extinct and belongs in a museum, whereas our faith is vibrant, living, etc.)?

My opinions count for little. After all, I'm an American. Smile
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#13
(10-27-2015, 07:50 PM)Sequentia Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 07:16 PM)introvert Wrote: It might have to do with the fact no one's having babies. The religious aren't having enough children to even continue their own communities.

I think contraception has a lot to do with it. I don't find it surprising that many of the white Europeans are big on contraceptives. After all, they're supposedly overpopulating the world. Now we see the consequences of using contraceptives in the western world. Just about every doctor prescribes birth control to young girls (11 or 12 years of age) and we teach about pregnancy as if it's some sort of disease. You mean, you can get PREGNANT if a penis goes into a vagina?  Shocked And then we teach that that baby (ie a human person) is just a "blob of cells," and the baby magically becomes a live human being only after coming out of the womb. Really? Huh?

I used to work with an individual (a Muslim, by the way; though a lapsed one) who thought this very same way. I found out later after I changed employers that he cheated on his wife, left her and his 3 children, and went to chase after a woman in a different country.

But yes, empty churches in Europe is a sad thing. North America and Europe are quickly descending into immoral cesspools of hedonism+secularism, with Islam on the other end of the spectrum. Both Islam and secularism/liberalism make great allies. My guess is that the native, "white" European populations throughout Europe will either become extinct or intermixed with whatever foreigners immigrate/invade, or become Muslims. The empty churches will either become mosques, lay derelict, or worse, turned into museums (am I the only one who thinks turning old churches into museums is a horrible idea? It turns our faith into something like as if it is extinct and belongs in a museum, whereas our faith is vibrant, living, etc.)?

My opinions count for little. After all, I'm an American. Smile

I'd rather bulldoze an old church than turn it into a museum, it's sad. The St Photios shrine in St Augustine has these first class relics, ancient icons and beautiful vestments and sets of chalices,etc. for the liturgy but it's basically a touristy bookshop,  it's all behind glass.  Its sad. The cathedral in St Augustine blares Gregorian chant through speakers for tourists, but the liturgy is Haugen/Haas.

Why reduce the Faith to places where foreigners with cameras can snap photos of our dead past? Churches, icons and liturgical vestments are not playthings or museum pieces but signs and symbols of our Faith.
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#14
(10-27-2015, 05:59 AM)xandratax Wrote: He said that the problem is not that these migrants are Muslims, the problem is that the churches here are empty. I'm sure a lot of you have realized that on your own, but I still think it's worth repeating.

I think that you miss one crucial point in identifying the problem: "the problem is that these migrants are migrants". Why are they migrating? Because the USA (and its ever obedient EU lap dogs) supposed it would be a good idea to foment civil war and unrest in several North-African states, Iraq and Syria, and to support rebel groups such as ISIS, in order to destabilise Russia-backed regimes in the region.

Given this geopolitical background, these migrants would have come even if every Sunday every church would be full.
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#15
(10-28-2015, 12:13 PM)vinceteipsum Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 05:59 AM)xandratax Wrote: He said that the problem is not that these migrants are Muslims, the problem is that the churches here are empty. I'm sure a lot of you have realized that on your own, but I still think it's worth repeating.

I think that you miss one crucial point in identifying the problem: "the problem is that these migrants are migrants". Why are they migrating? Because the USA (and its ever obedient EU lap dogs) supposed it would be a good idea to foment civil war and unrest in several North-African states, Iraq and Syria, and to support rebel groups such as ISIS, in order to destabilise Russia-backed regimes in the region.

Given this geopolitical background, these migrants would have come even if every Sunday every church would be full.

This is so true, and I'm fully aware of it. This is a historically based problem, going all the way back even to European/Western blundering in the Middle East in WWI. A lot of it is over my head, but I'm hardly willing to let all of these out-right disasters slide. What were these people thinking when they started this whole mess in the first place?
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#16
Another interesting point of view (see: https://www.rt.com/news/319797-syria-dep...s-assange/) is that the migrant stream has been created in order to "strategically depopulate" Syria. The migrants who are currently streaming into Europe are mostly middle class, i.e. the kind of people needed to keep a country functioning.

Indeed, on the TV and in the internet we see migrants brandishing mobile phones, making selfies, wearing trendy sunglasses, designer jeans. These are not the refugees we saw in other crises, barefoot, in tattered clothes.
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#17
(10-27-2015, 07:50 PM)Sequentia Wrote:
(10-27-2015, 07:16 PM)introvert Wrote: It might have to do with the fact no one's having babies. The religious aren't having enough children to even continue their own communities.

I think contraception has a lot to do with it. I don't find it surprising that many of the white Europeans are big on contraceptives. After all, they're supposedly overpopulating the world.

The overpopulation argument from liberals is a myth, because any person who does their own investigation would note the relationship between corrupt regimes and withholding resources. That aside, I've always found it odd when white supremacy groups decry how whites are getting intermingled, but are blind to the fact people don't want to get married and have children within marriage. What good does it do to go after the mixed-race couple who get married and have children in wedlock and most likely, raise the children in one culture?

(10-27-2015, 07:50 PM)Sequentia Wrote: My opinions count for little. After all, I'm an American. Smile

I too, am American, but witnessing what goes on in Europe is concerning. I don't want to see a bunch of women running around wearing niqabs.
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