Neurotic priests scare me, says Pope
#1
All the more reason for trads to be extra careful in how they speak and act.

http://www.globalpost.com/article/669149...-says-pope
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#2
This is so much BS. The process he describes for selecting seminarians seems eerily similar to that denounced in Good bye good man. And of course, to be too rigid—and I suspect by the pope's standards that, by now, means any faithful Catholic (remember how rudely he mocked a little altar boy for the way he folded his hands?)—is to be “neurotic”. This is just another form of the same idiotic insults he is wont of throwing around.

Now, in my experience the more “rigid” the priest the better—they tend to be even the more compassionate. In my experience when a sandal wearing priest just throws a stole upon a t-shirt, that's when you have to look out!
And I bet its not just me. Sometimes in the Cathedral there's an option for confessing with a priest wearing black cassock with purple stole sitting in the confessional and the sort of priest I described above (face to face, of course). Guess who people prefer, even to the point of waiting much more?

At this point I don't think there's anything healthy in listening to the pope. He sounds like an abusive father.

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#3
He's right, some people drawn to the priesthood, monastic life or to some other position of religious authority are mentally unstable. History is littered with stories of pseudo elders, fanatical cult leaders and charismatic sociopaths in religious garb. Whether it's a Jim Jones,a Gleb Podmoshensky or a Father Eckroth it's all the same--- a mentally unstable individual using religious authority either as a crutch to cope with life or as a medium by which to prey on weak souls. 

Fundamentalism is hardly a trait assiciated with the modern Catholic priesthood though, at least not outside of some sectors of the SSPX or various fringe Sedevacantist groups who are obsessed with making people dress like its the 1940's and make hellfire and brimstone the sermon topic of choice. This is a rarity.


What is really needed amongst candidates for the priesthood today are emotionally healthy heterosexual males who are both fully human and fully orthodox, who can fully identify with the sins and weaknesses of other men but who do not water down doctrine to fit the modern age. This is a rarity today. A good priest I once knew said the one major trait he looks for in those looking to be priests is whether or not they have suffered a lot in life, and whether that suffering has helped them grow in empathy for others and humility or not. A priest must be a real flesh and blood man who, in knowing his own sins, tendencies and weaknesses can have compassion for others because he realizes that all men are basically the same. 

The challenge is how to be fully human and orthodox. One has to really and truly have the Faith and know oneself and all men deeply for this--- a rare thing in any generation.

Francis is very insightful sometimes. I'm still not a fan of much of his style, but that he wants to get away from the obnoxious gimmicks, red tape and hiding behind structures and rules that has been a part of ecclesial life for so long is refreshing. 


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#4
(11-21-2015, 12:50 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: He's right, some people drawn to the priesthood, monastic life or to some other position of religious authority are mentally unstable. History is littered with stories of pseudo elders, fanatical cult leaders and charismatic sociopaths in religious garb. Whether it's a Jim Jones,a Gleb Podmoshensky or a Father Eckroth it's all the same--- a mentally unstable individual using religious authority either as a crutch to cope with life or as a medium by which to prey on weak souls. 

Fundamentalism is hardly a trait assiciated with the modern Catholic priesthood though, at least not outside of some sectors of the SSPX or various fringe Sedevacantist groups who are obsessed with making people dress like its the 1940's and make hellfire and brimstone the sermon topic of choice. This is a rarity.


What is really needed amongst candidates for the priesthood today are emotionally healthy heterosexual males who are both fully human and fully orthodox, who can fully identify with the sins and weaknesses of other men but who do not water down doctrine to fit the modern age. This is a rarity today. A good priest I once knew said the one major trait he looks for in those looking to be priests is whether or not they have suffered a lot in life, and whether that suffering has helped them grow in empathy for others and humility or not. A priest must be a real flesh and blood man who, in knowing his own sins, tendencies and weaknesses can have compassion for others because he realizes that all men are basically the same. 

The challenge is how to be fully human and orthodox. One has to really and truly have the Faith and know oneself and all men deeply for this--- a rare thing in any generation.

Francis is very insightful sometimes. I'm still not a fan of much of his style, but that he wants to get away from the obnoxious gimmicks, red tape and hiding behind structures and rules that has been a part of ecclesial life for so long is refreshing.

You don't know what you're talking about.

The only cult of personality I've seen in Catholicism is around the person of Francis.
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#5
(11-21-2015, 01:05 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote:
(11-21-2015, 12:50 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: He's right, some people drawn to the priesthood, monastic life or to some other position of religious authority are mentally unstable. History is littered with stories of pseudo elders, fanatical cult leaders and charismatic sociopaths in religious garb. Whether it's a Jim Jones,a Gleb Podmoshensky or a Father Eckroth it's all the same--- a mentally unstable individual using religious authority either as a crutch to cope with life or as a medium by which to prey on weak souls. 

Fundamentalism is hardly a trait assiciated with the modern Catholic priesthood though, at least not outside of some sectors of the SSPX or various fringe Sedevacantist groups who are obsessed with making people dress like its the 1940's and make hellfire and brimstone the sermon topic of choice. This is a rarity.


What is really needed amongst candidates for the priesthood today are emotionally healthy heterosexual males who are both fully human and fully orthodox, who can fully identify with the sins and weaknesses of other men but who do not water down doctrine to fit the modern age. This is a rarity today. A good priest I once knew said the one major trait he looks for in those looking to be priests is whether or not they have suffered a lot in life, and whether that suffering has helped them grow in empathy for others and humility or not. A priest must be a real flesh and blood man who, in knowing his own sins, tendencies and weaknesses can have compassion for others because he realizes that all men are basically the same. 

The challenge is how to be fully human and orthodox. One has to really and truly have the Faith and know oneself and all men deeply for this--- a rare thing in any generation.

Francis is very insightful sometimes. I'm still not a fan of much of his style, but that he wants to get away from the obnoxious gimmicks, red tape and hiding behind structures and rules that has been a part of ecclesial life for so long is refreshing.

You don't know what you're talking about.

The only cult of personality I've seen in Catholicism is around the person of Francis.

There's undeniably a cult of personality around Pope Francis, but that doesn't make some of his insights any less valid.

I don't think he's attacking trads at all.
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#6
If he is not attacking all trads here he was not attacking all trads in his speech at the end of the Synod or in his speech for the Italian bishops, because its basically the same thing: people cannot be comfortable with fixed forms, with laws, with doctrine. No! Doctrine generates questions, doubts even!
Now, if you're comfortable leaving doctrine unchangeable and if you're not drinking the cool aid of the “god of change”, you're sick in the head!

I'm sorry, not buying it.

Also, I wonder if you've ever been to an SSPX chapel. The SSPX generally have solid priests and what you described is a gross caricature (even Bergoglio didn't have a problem with the SSPX in Argentina, where they have massive presence, even a Seminary there). At the end of the day, its like what I said above, the chances of one finding a psycho priest among traditional Catholics (or simple Catholic priests who think doctrines don't change) is far lower than among the egocentric homosexuals, the non-liturgical liberals (btw, how egocentric must one be to simply disregard the rubrics?), etc.
At the end of the day this is the same sort of myth the secular world likes to disseminate: celibates are sick and a time bomb, those mystics loving suffering are sick, sexually frustrated people who seek comfort in religion, etc. (never mind that modernists are precisely the ones that see religion as a source of comfort, which is a 19th century Prot distortion).
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#7
(11-21-2015, 11:32 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: All the more reason for trads to be extra careful in how they speak and act.

http://www.globalpost.com/article/669149...-says-pope

That's interesting, because liberal, delusional popes scare me.

(oops... did I say that out loud?)
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#8
Pope Francis needs some updating and as usual, lacks clarity.  The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association no longer uses the term neurosis. How many abusive priests came from the ranks of the "rigid and withdrawn"? Not many I expect. I would bet many of them passed their psychologicals with flying colors hence the reason they were in active ministry.
Neurosis has usually been used to describe anyone with some appreciable level of depression or anxiety. That's quite common really.
Pope Francis would do well to probe deeper into things than issue specious statements that are more likely to subject him to ridicule.

C.
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#9
(11-21-2015, 12:50 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: He's right, some people drawn to the priesthood, monastic life or to some other position of religious authority are mentally unstable. History is littered with stories of pseudo elders, fanatical cult leaders and charismatic sociopaths in religious garb. Whether it's a Jim Jones,a Gleb Podmoshensky or a Father Eckroth it's all the same--- a mentally unstable individual using religious authority either as a crutch to cope with life or as a medium by which to prey on weak souls. 

Fundamentalism is hardly a trait assiciated with the modern Catholic priesthood though, at least not outside of some sectors of the SSPX or various fringe Sedevacantist groups who are obsessed with making people dress like its the 1940's and make hellfire and brimstone the sermon topic of choice. This is a rarity.

What is really needed amongst candidates for the priesthood today are emotionally healthy heterosexual males who are both fully human and fully

orthodox, who can fully identify with the sins and weaknesses of other men but who do not water down doctrine to fit the modern age. This is a rarity today. A good priest I once knew said the one major trait he looks for in those looking to be priests is whether or not they have suffered a lot in life, and whether that suffering has helped them grow in empathy for others and humility or not. A priest must be a real flesh and blood man who, in knowing his own sins, tendencies and weaknesses can have compassion for others because he realizes that all men are basically the same. 

The challenge is how to be fully human and orthodox. One has to really and truly have the Faith and know oneself and all men deeply for this--- a rare thing in any generation.

Francis is very insightful sometimes. I'm still not a fan of much of his style, but that he wants to get away from the obnoxious gimmicks, red tape and hiding behind structures and rules that has been a part of ecclesial life for so long is refreshing.

Not to nit pick but Jim Jones was not in any way religious. In reality he was a textbook Marxist agitator who deliberately started a church to undermine religion in general and Christianity in particular. Obviously it worked well because his name is always brandied about whenever discussing the supposed "true face" of religion.

Just remember the next time someone brings his name up in connection with religious fundamentalism that he didn't even believe in God let alone Christianity.
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#10
(11-21-2015, 07:48 PM)MeanGene Wrote:
(11-21-2015, 12:50 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: He's right, some people drawn to the priesthood, monastic life or to some other position of religious authority are mentally unstable. History is littered with stories of pseudo elders, fanatical cult leaders and charismatic sociopaths in religious garb. Whether it's a Jim Jones,a Gleb Podmoshensky or a Father Eckroth it's all the same--- a mentally unstable individual using religious authority either as a crutch to cope with life or as a medium by which to prey on weak souls. 

Fundamentalism is hardly a trait assiciated with the modern Catholic priesthood though, at least not outside of some sectors of the SSPX or various fringe Sedevacantist groups who are obsessed with making people dress like its the 1940's and make hellfire and brimstone the sermon topic of choice. This is a rarity.

What is really needed amongst candidates for the priesthood today are emotionally healthy heterosexual males who are both fully human and fully

orthodox, who can fully identify with the sins and weaknesses of other men but who do not water down doctrine to fit the modern age. This is a rarity today. A good priest I once knew said the one major trait he looks for in those looking to be priests is whether or not they have suffered a lot in life, and whether that suffering has helped them grow in empathy for others and humility or not. A priest must be a real flesh and blood man who, in knowing his own sins, tendencies and weaknesses can have compassion for others because he realizes that all men are basically the same. 

The challenge is how to be fully human and orthodox. One has to really and truly have the Faith and know oneself and all men deeply for this--- a rare thing in any generation.

Francis is very insightful sometimes. I'm still not a fan of much of his style, but that he wants to get away from the obnoxious gimmicks, red tape and hiding behind structures and rules that has been a part of ecclesial life for so long is refreshing.

Not to nit pick but Jim Jones was not in any way religious. In reality he was a textbook Marxist agitator who deliberately started a church to undermine religion in general and Christianity in particular. Obviously it worked well because his name is always brandied about whenever discussing the supposed "true face" of religion.

Just remember the next time someone brings his name up in connection with religious fundamentalism that he didn't even believe in God let alone Christianity.

I hadn't known that MeanGene, and I appreciate you pointing that out.  Tip o' the hat 



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