Why are these people disapearring?
#21
Christianity desacralized nature. What were worshiped as speaking winds, sacred groves, and living rivers became hollow matter. But the wilds still remained a place of spiritual encounter; the satyrs, naiads, and fauns lost their old majestic clothes and were revealed to be demons. So, the wilds are a place of spiritual warfare, and have been since the first Egyptian hermits entered the desert barrens to dwell in landscapes not made for human habitation, where even potable water had to be carried in from miles away, or settled in mouldering old tombs and abandoned temples. God allowed demons to physically attack and injure St. Anthony the Great in a cave where he retreated, to the point where his disciples thought he was actually beaten to death when they found him.
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#22
(12-02-2015, 06:37 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: That's true. Wicca is at least a worldview with connection to seasons and cycles, symbol and ritual. There's a sort of logic and appeal to it, and in that sense I see the appeal. I suppose the other firms of occultism are similiar, but there's something appealing about the various forms that put one in touch with the cycles of the sun, the moon, the stars and the seasons. I can see adults falling for that.

The stuff I'm baffled by is crystals, sacred geometry, aura readings, A Course in Miraclesand some of the other bizarre elements  and fringe groups among the new age.  Maybe my own conversion over the years makes me automatically see the emptiness of these things and so I don't put myself in the shoes of someone who knows nothing but secularism and than gets caught up in crystals, high colonics and sacred geometry because it is something, anything other than the empty secular scientific narrative.

And no doubt power and influence can be gained.

One thing that always gets me is how people get excited about how some psychic told them,say,what the color of grandmas favorite sweater was,or even details about grandmas favorite reading chair or something. I guess people want to believe it's really granny who told this psychic, but how do they really know?

And spirit guides,why would anyone want something less than God? I guess these days it's hard for me to put myself back in their shoes.

It's definitely that emptiness of secularism that gets them, I think.  If you really talk with the "marks", they all have the same desperation.  They all cling to the guru du jour, buying their potions, wearing their talisman.  The next year it's all the same, only the huckster has changed. 

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#23
(12-03-2015, 03:23 PM)dcmaccabees Wrote:
(12-02-2015, 06:37 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: That's true. Wicca is at least a worldview with connection to seasons and cycles, symbol and ritual. There's a sort of logic and appeal to it, and in that sense I see the appeal. I suppose the other firms of occultism are similiar, but there's something appealing about the various forms that put one in touch with the cycles of the sun, the moon, the stars and the seasons. I can see adults falling for that.

The stuff I'm baffled by is crystals, sacred geometry, aura readings, A Course in Miraclesand some of the other bizarre elements  and fringe groups among the new age.  Maybe my own conversion over the years makes me automatically see the emptiness of these things and so I don't put myself in the shoes of someone who knows nothing but secularism and than gets caught up in crystals, high colonics and sacred geometry because it is something, anything other than the empty secular scientific narrative.

And no doubt power and influence can be gained.

One thing that always gets me is how people get excited about how some psychic told them,say,what the color of grandmas favorite sweater was,or even details about grandmas favorite reading chair or something. I guess people want to believe it's really granny who told this psychic, but how do they really know?

And spirit guides,why would anyone want something less than God? I guess these days it's hard for me to put myself back in their shoes.

It's definitely that emptiness of secularism that gets them, I think.  If you really talk with the "marks", they all have the same desperation.  They all cling to the guru du jour, buying their potions, wearing their talisman.  The next year it's all the same, only the huckster has changed.

My best friends mom back in Michigan was like this, chasing everything from angel oracles, a course in miracles, aura reading, sweat lodge seances and yoga to episcopalianism and gratitude journals to say nothing of the constant presence of marijuana as a sacrament of sorts.  It was at that house that I first heard of Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer and Edgar Cayce. 

And my friends from back then and I were all lonely and looking for something to fill that void. The seasonal and symbolic aspects of Wicca really gave us a worldview. It's funny, now as an adult who has nothing to do with Wicca I find that what resonates with me most about Catholicism is the sacramental view of matter, the stories of God becoming man, the various lives of saints and the rhythm of the liturgical year through the various signs, symbols, colors, prayers and images of feast and fast and the Divine Office.

Desperation is a good way of describing it. Ultimately it's empty, and it leaves you empty. Good points.

How does one reach these people? For me it was the beauty of Gregorian chant,the stories of the saints and some real experience of Jesus Christ. For most new agers logic and reason is irrelevant,they want good stories. I think that traditional Eastern or Western Christianity has these good ( and true) stories in abundance, but they are so hidden in most parishes.

I've had lots of people ask me about Catholicism who are on the fence and I will not ever take them to the new rite nor endorse it. I have taken people to the Latin Mass though.

I've even had people ask about transubstantiation---- now that's a good and true story!

The cool thing about new age types is that they sort of get the sacramental world view. They are open to it. They take to things like blessings very easily. I know I did.
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#24
I think that you and I would have a lot to talk about if we went out for a beer, FB.  Number of the same roads traveled...

I can see what you mean about various New Pagans being comfortable with the Catholic view of the natural world.  Things like Mary Gardens are definitely in their wheelhouse.  I'd think that a book like Lives of the Saints would be fascinating as well, full of "magic" (to put it into their terms)>

As you inferred, though, how to "turn them on" to it when most local parishes are cultural wastelands? 
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#25
(12-04-2015, 03:00 PM)dcmaccabees Wrote: I think that you and I would have a lot to talk about if we went out for a beer, FB.  Number of the same roads traveled...

I can see what you mean about various New Pagans being comfortable with the Catholic view of the natural world.  Things like Mary Gardens are definitely in their wheelhouse.  I'd think that a book like Lives of the Saints would be fascinating as well, full of "magic" (to put it into their terms)>

As you inferred, though, how to "turn them on" to it when most local parishes are cultural wastelands?

Ha, maybe if I'm ever in the Sedona area again! It'd be fun to spend an evening conversing about all this for sure.

That's the million dollar question...just how to turn these folks on to the richness of the Faith at the local parish level. It's not so easy.  I suppose you could start by giving them blessed medals, books like The Flowers of St Francis, Sacred Doorways ( about iconography and it's symbolism), stuff by the late Stratford Caldecott etc... Those most hagiographical, esoteric and symbolic stuff appeals to them in ways that the average theology textbook does not.  Taking them to a cemetery during November and chanting the de profundis while sprinkling holy water on the graves, or praying the canon for the departed....

I really believe that many Wiccans and other new age types would be open to the Faith if it were presented right and there was someone who could initiate them into the various mysteries associated with the wheel of the year.

You know there used to be one of those Lenten Missions on Audiosancto where the priest went into some detail about fantasy literature, good stories and neo paganism, and how it's really us that have the best stories, and they are true.

Modern Catholicism is stripped of mystery in so many places,that's the problem. Laywers and more cerebral intellectual types want lock tight logic and the facts of apologetics tracts, folks like me want mystery, symbol, feasts and fasts and the sanctification of time through prayers, blessings and the Divine Office?m
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#26


Give them "Meditations on the Tarot":

[Image: meditationsonthetarot.JPG]
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#27
(12-04-2015, 08:24 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Give them "Meditations on the Tarot":

[Image: meditationsonthetarot.JPG]

That's probably a good idea.  Smile I've been meaning to read that book myself. You know I could imagine getting that for my mom, a " non practicing" Catholic and new age fan who needs something to push her back into reconsidering the Faith she was born into.
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#28
(12-04-2015, 05:28 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Ha, maybe if I'm ever in the Sedona area again! It'd be fun to spend an evening conversing about all this for sure.

That's the million dollar question...just how to turn these folks on to the richness of the Faith at the local parish level. It's not so easy.  I suppose you could start by giving them blessed medals, books like The Flowers of St Francis, Sacred Doorways ( about iconography and it's symbolism), stuff by the late Stratford Caldecott etc... Those most hagiographical, esoteric and symbolic stuff appeals to them in ways that the average theology textbook does not.  Taking them to a cemetery during November and chanting the de profundis while sprinkling holy water on the graves, or praying the canon for the departed....

I really believe that many Wiccans and other new age types would be open to the Faith if it were presented right and there was someone who could initiate them into the various mysteries associated with the wheel of the year.

You know there used to be one of those Lenten Missions on Audiosancto where the priest went into some detail about fantasy literature, good stories and neo paganism, and how it's really us that have the best stories, and they are true.

Modern Catholicism is stripped of mystery in so many places,that's the problem. Laywers and more cerebral intellectual types want lock tight logic and the facts of apologetics tracts, folks like me want mystery, symbol, feasts and fasts and the sanctification of time through prayers, blessings and the Divine Office?m

Drop me a line if you are.  We'll have a FishEaters/The Ball and the Cross mashup sort of night, plus I'll teach you a thing or two about good scotch along the way to boot lol

I'd say that you're right on the nose about what could bring in many of those into the Church.  The mysterious and the wild are non-existent in modern life, much less modern parishes.

An example: when my Grandmother was a girl her mother would take her out into the ravines for mushrooms.  The way my great-grandmother knew which were poisonous?  A rhyme, a St Benedict's medal, and a prayer to Our Lady and St Benedict.  This was normal rural Catholic life once upon a time.  Now it would get child protection services called on you...

How do we get back there from here?
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#29
Well, the Catholic Church didn't convert the pagan world by luck :-). I think most new age people are ripe for conversion. It's a matter of showing them Catholicism in the right light. Run of the mill NO is certainly not the way.
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