Poll: Do Muslims and Jews Worship the Same God as We Do?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
3
0%
0 0%
10
0%
0 0%
3
0%
0 0%
1
0%
0 0%
10
0%
0 0%
Total 0 vote(s) 0%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Do Muslims and Jews Worship the Same God as We Do?
#21
This might be slightly off-topic, but I wonder if some of the terminology used in this discussion might not be somewhat misleading and overly laden with metaphysical and onto-theological presuppositions. After all, if God is entirely unknowable, then in a sense, perhaps, we can never direct ourselves intentionally toward him. Instead, we only know about God to the extent that the divine presences itself in the world, calling us and eliciting our response. In this case, perhaps the question is more whether the language and praxis of Judaism and Islam can serve as a sort of medium for the experience of the divine call and mortal response. In regard to Islam, the existence of certain truly wise men, such as Mansur al-Hallaj, incline me to think that this question can at least sometimes be answered in the affirmative.

I suppose the typical Catholic move, taken by Maritain and others, is to posit the existence of a "natural mysticism" or something similar. However, I wonder if that sort of thing doesn't rely on a faulty understanding of the relationship between nature and and the supernatural, as if the two were not inherently related and only arbitrarily connected to each other, and an impoverished understanding of language and culture. That is, if all of our understanding is determined by culturally contingent forestructures, how can there be any sort of natural experience of the divine that somehow takes place outside and in despite of them?

On the other hand, I very much agree with the above post on the importance of our Lord's assertion that no one knows the Father except through him, so I suppose I also believe that it is complicated. 
Reply
#22
Just to clarify what I meant, its not like individual good Mohammedans or Jews following natural law despite their religions worship the same God as we do, but it seems clear to me that some groups of Mohammedans and Jews have the God of classical theism in mind, while others clearly worship some particularly filthy demon.
As to whether classical theism crept into their tradition through accident (say, the influence of neoplatonism in Persia due to influx of pagans) or is a consequence of their religious traditions (or, on the other hand, their deviation into false ideas of God, in the case of Judaism) is another matter.

Another thing that should be clarified that nobody has yet made any distinction is what is meant by worship. Firstly the Catholic sense of worship is very different from any other religion, which necessitates by its own inner logic the Trinity (and the incarnation as the condition of possibility). And secondly, if worship is more than just having in mind the right (as far as natural theology goes) concept of God and praying to Him and following natural law, then clearly we cannot speak so broadly about whether we worship the same God or not. From the Catholic perspective we would have to say no, because then yes, worship is more than having the right concept of God.
Reply
#23
Well of course properly speaking, the Father of Jesus Christ is "God"; in the true and only real sense of the term, as "false" gods are not really gods at all, but devils. "For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils:"Psalm 96:5"

Monotheists that are not Christians are only "God" worshipers in theory, not in actuality; "wise" men and those with natural virtue among them not withstanding.

I think we should be leery of the tendency to modernize this issue to meaningless Freemasonic abstraction and stick to what has been revealed:

"But the hour cometh and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth." (Jn. 4:23).

To reiterate: “The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her" - Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Jugiter Studio, May 27, 1832

"the fitting and devout worship of God, which is to be found chiefly in the divine sacrifice and in the dispensation of the sacraments, as well as salutary laws and discipline . . . The (Catholic) Church alone offers to the human race that religion" Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, June 19, 1896

"Without Faith it is impossible to please God" (Hebrews 11:6)

Will just any "faith" suffice? No. The Council of Trent (Session V) identifies the Faith of this verse from Hebrews with the Catholic Faith--"That our Catholic faith, without which it is impossible to please God."

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father" (1 John 2:23) Since we know the Father is God (the real and only God), those who deny Christ and the Trinity, neither have nor really believe in God.

" But through unbelief man is separated most from God: because he has no true knowledge of God. Nor can anyone in any way know God who holds a false opinion of Him" (St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica II - II q. 10, Art. 3)

St. Augustine: "Heretics worship a God who is a liar, and a Christ who is a liar." (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca, Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 42:207)

"Heretics do not have the same God, the same Christ as Catholics." (Tertullian, Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graca, Fr. J. P. Migne, Paris: 1866, 1:1216).

"He who does not believe according to the Tradition of the Catholic Church is an unbeliever." (St. John Damascene, Father and Doctor of the Church).

If even heretics do not have the same God as true Christians (Catholics) do, where does that leave Jews, Moslems, and pagans? Obviously in an even further alienated state.  Hence, it is an error to refer to non-Catholics as "believers" or able to know or worship God simply  because they lay claim to it. 

The Baltimore Catechism (No. 3) states as follows:

Q. 1148. How do we offer God false worship?

A. We offer God false worship by rejecting the religion He has instituted and following one pleasing to ourselves, with a form of worship He has never authorized, approved or sanctioned.

Of course God can hear the prayers of non-Christians, but this is another matter entirely from that of whether they can offer true worship.   
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)