Gay marriage thought
#1
I saw this commercial with gay couples in it whose unions are now considered marriages legally. I wasn't really moved by the commercial until the last couple, who were two middle aged, normal looking guys, who were crying over how much they loved the other, and it moved me a little bit. Now I'm a catholic and love orthodoxy, but am I the only one who feels empathetic for gay couples sometimes? I mean, I'm orthodox, never voted for anything against church teaching (since I only vote to lower taxes basically).
Reply
#2
I understand completely, especially coming from a background of SSA (I joke to my boyfriend that he "straightened me out," and I honestly think there's a lot of truth to that). But what it boils down to as Catholics is that we have to follow the words and guidance of Jesus and the Church that He founded, and Jesus said that a man will leave his father and his mother and will cleave to his wife. He spoke unambiguously about the nature of marriage.
Reply
#3
In situations like this, of course I feel happiness. I feel happy that those men have found someone who loves them, someone with whom they can share life, and someone to support them as they grow older. If they are Christians, I am happy that they have someone to pray with, someone to support them in their journeys toward Christ, and someone to help them overcome their human egos and self-centeredness. I feel happy about these things because they are all good. Of course, at the same time, I also feel very sad. I am sad that these people have grown up in a pleasure-obsessed and anthropologically confused culture that teaches them the only (meaningful) way they can do the things I listed above (love, support, share, care for, encourage, etc.) is in the context of marriage or sexual activity, because this is a lie. Finally, I'm sad that we as a Church condemn and judge these people for seeking the normal, human experiences of life (albeit in a disordered context) when we FAIL so many times to offer them what we should and what would help them.
Reply
#4
(01-07-2016, 09:57 AM)Share Love Wrote: I understand completely, especially coming from a background of SSA (I joke to my boyfriend that he "straightened me out," and I honestly think there's a lot of truth to that). But what it boils down to as Catholics is that we have to follow the words and guidance of Jesus and the Church that He founded, and Jesus said that a man will leave his father and his mother and will cleave to his wife. He spoke unambiguously about the nature of marriage.

Agreed. I've never understood it when people say, "Christ never said a word about homosexuality." Um, that's not quite right. He rejected it when he defined the nature of marriage.
Reply
#5
(01-07-2016, 09:41 AM)randomtradguy Wrote: I saw this commercial with gay couples in it whose unions are now considered marriages legally. I wasn't really moved by the commercial until the last couple, who were two middle aged, normal looking guys, who were crying over how much they loved the other, and it moved me a little bit. Now I'm a catholic and love orthodoxy, but am I the only one who feels empathetic for gay couples sometimes? I mean, I'm orthodox, never voted for anything against church teaching (since I only vote to lower taxes basically).

Being an individual who struggles with SSA, yes, I do get moved by these images from time to time. However, I always remind myself of the true nature of homosexuality and my mind returns to reality. Here is a good example of what I am talking about: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29s....html?_r=0

"Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret

When Rio and Ray married in 2008, the Bay Area women omitted two words from their wedding vows: fidelity and monogamy.

“I take it as a gift that someone will be that open and honest and sharing with me,” said Rio, using the word “open” to describe their marriage.

Love brought the middle-age couple together — they wed during California’s brief legal window for same-sex marriage. But they knew from the beginning that their bond would be forged on their own terms, including what they call “play” with other women.

As the trial phase of the constitutional battle to overturn the Proposition 8 ban on same-sex marriage concludes in federal court, gay nuptials are portrayed by opponents as an effort to rewrite the traditional rules of matrimony. Quietly, outside of the news media and courtroom spotlight, many gay couples are doing just that, according to groundbreaking new research.

A study to be released next month is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many. Some gay men and lesbians argue that, as a result, they have stronger, longer-lasting and more honest relationships. And while that may sound counterintuitive, some experts say boundary-challenging gay relationships represent an evolution in marriage — one that might point the way for the survival of the institution.

New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key. “With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”

The study also found open gay couples just as happy in their relationships as pairs in sexually exclusive unions, Dr. Hoff said. A different study, published in 1985, concluded that open gay relationships actually lasted longer.

None of this is news in the gay community, but few will speak publicly about it. Of the dozen people in open relationships contacted for this column, no one would agree to use his or her full name, citing privacy concerns. They also worried that discussing the subject could undermine the legal fight for same-sex marriage.

According to the research, open relationships almost always have rules.

That is how it works for Chris and James. Over drinks upstairs at the venerable Twin Peaks Tavern in the Castro neighborhood of San Francisco, they beamed as they recalled the day in June 2008 that they donned black suits and wed at City Hall, stunned by the outpouring of affection from complete strangers. “Even homeless people and bike messengers were congratulating us,” said Chris, 42.

A couple since 2002, they opened their relationship a year ago after concluding that they were not fully meeting each other’s needs. But they have rules: complete disclosure, honesty about all encounters, advance approval of partners, and no sex with strangers — they must both know the other men first. “We check in with each other on this an awful lot,” said James, 37.

Advertisement

Continue reading the main story
Advertisement

Continue reading the main story
That transparency can make relationships stronger, said Joe Quirk, author of the best-selling relationship book “It’s Not You, It’s Biology.”

“The combination of freedom and mutual understanding can foster a unique level of trust,” Mr. Quirk, of Oakland, said.

“The traditional American marriage is in crisis, and we need insight,” he said, citing the fresh perspective gay couples bring to matrimony. “If innovation in marriage is going to occur, it will be spearheaded by homosexual marriages.”

Open relationships are not exclusively a gay domain, of course. Deb and Marius are heterosexual, live in the East Bay and have an open marriage. She belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and maintained her virginity until her wedding day at 34. But a few years later, when the relationship sputtered, both she and her husband, who does not belong to the church, began liaisons with others.

“Our relationship got better,” she said. “I slept better at night. My blood pressure went down.”

Deb and Marius also have rules, including restrictions on extramarital intercourse. “To us,” Marius said, “cheating would be breaking the agreement we have with each other. We define our relationship, not a religious group.”

So while the legal fight over same-sex marriage plays out, couples say the real battle is making relationships last — and their answers defy the prevailing definition of marriage.

“In 1900, the average life span for a U.S. citizen was 47,” Mr. Quirk said. “Now we’re living so much longer, ‘until death do us part’ is twice as challenging.” "

Reply
#6
(01-07-2016, 09:41 AM)randomtradguy Wrote: I saw this commercial with gay couples in it whose unions are now considered marriages legally. I wasn't really moved by the commercial until the last couple, who were two middle aged, normal looking guys, who were crying over how much they loved the other, and it moved me a little bit. Now I'm a catholic and love orthodoxy, but am I the only one who feels empathetic for gay couples sometimes? I mean, I'm orthodox, never voted for anything against church teaching (since I only vote to lower taxes basically).

You're absolutely not (and should not be) the only one who feels empathy for homosexuals. We should try to feel empathy for everyone, as much as we can. And I've written a thousand times here on this forum about how homosexuality is about a LOT more than just sex. Gay people fall in love just like everyone else does. Those feelings are very, very real and shouldn't be mocked, slighted, or ignored. People who talk about homosexuality and ignore such things, focusing only on "sodomy" (by which they mean "anal sex," an act they totally ignore among heterosexuals), are not being charitable at all. And they won't be effective "ambassadors" for Christianity.

But we can't let emotional empathy and pity get in the way of Truth. While homosexuality is not a sin, but a  disorder, acting on homosexual desires is sinful. And marriage is between a man and a woman.
Reply
#7
I think we would be very cold individuals to feel anything but empathetic. It's when that empathy is allowed to override common sense that we, collectively, tend to get ourselves into trouble.

That's a big reason why same-sex marriages have gained so much traction in recent years. As humans, we're empathetic for their desire for love and acceptance. But because most people don't have the objectivity of Church teaching to fall back on, those emotions are what controls their actions.

Our reaction needs to be balanced and tempered. We need that empathy to ensure these people are treated with love, compassion and respect. But we also have an obligation to uphold what Christ himself taught about marriage.
Reply
#8
There isn't anything wrong with feeling empathy towards it, but as Christians we must be able to have control over our emotions and not let our emotions control us. That is the issue with the left side of the political/cultural spectrum. They are ruled by emotions. It kind of like animal rights people who blow up research centers. They feel so empathetic for cruelty toward animals that they are willing to kill and destroy to save them, which is disordered because they are placing animals above man. Similarly with environmentalists. They are correct in their assumption that we must take care of the earth, but wrong to place it above mankind and God. Emotions are a normal human part of us, we just can't let them cloud our mind from the truth.
Reply
#9
Catholic doctrine does not impede any couple of the same sex from having an emotionally intimate, loving relationship. The Catholic Church merely says that this relationship is disordered if it depends on an Eros driven by acts of sexual defilement. The parallel to the same-sex marriage controversy is when people posit that denying marriage licences to homosexual couples would somehow subtract from the love already present in the relationship. A licence from the State does not have the power to heighten or diminish loving feelings between two individuals. It delivers no supernatural graces.
Reply
#10
(01-07-2016, 09:41 AM)randomtradguy Wrote: I saw this commercial with gay couples in it whose unions are now considered marriages legally. I wasn't really moved by the commercial until the last couple, who were two middle aged, normal looking guys, who were crying over how much they loved the other, and it moved me a little bit. Now I'm a catholic and love orthodoxy, but am I the only one who feels empathetic for gay couples sometimes? I mean, I'm orthodox, never voted for anything against church teaching (since I only vote to lower taxes basically).
There is a such thing as fraternal love, where two brothers love one another. Not everything has to be gay.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)