A lot of Eastern Orthodox seem to be universalists.
#31
(01-12-2016, 03:49 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: You and I just do not and will not ever see eye to eye on some things.

I also have a bad tendency to find personal fault in things other peopl say. Also you can be annoying, you show up in all threads, say that you're not interested in intellectual discussion... then state your opinion anyway, and talk about how you only do this or that eastern spirituality, and the complain that you're not intellectual anyway.

Also what on Earth would you do if you came face to face with a fellow Eastern Catholic that you'd find liberal on all sorts of points... but who practiced the exact same spirituality as you... something you seem to imply, often (over and again) to be impossible, given that you believe the prayers themselves convey the right spiritual thinking to people?
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#32
At any rate a life of prayer is something all should seek out. And something I hope I can get back to eventually. I practice something minimalistic, the three hail maries, meal prayers, and an ave (with a prayer for protection) everytime I come and leave my apartment (I'm putting up an Icon in my hallway).

Its almost nothing, but it keeps me being Catholic. And without prayer I have no doubt my faith would not survive.

"He who prays is certain to be saved. He who does not pray is certain to be damned." St. Alphonsus de Ligouri.

Right now I have frankly been burned out on it. Prayers did not help me through my depression, my family did. It did not help me conquor my impurity, only a friend of mine who had the same habit was capable of helping me there. It has not given me peace, or joy, or hope, it has only lead me to meditate soul crushingly on my own sinfulness and left me increasingly feeling like I'm running from Hell (which is catching up to me), and not running towards Heaven.

I'm tired of fighting, and being told you have to fight fifty times harder than you do now. Right now I need to focus on getting well enough not to commit suicide, or harm myself.

Not pray 500 times the Jesus Prayer everyday as some EO's brag that they do. (And you think the rosary prayer gets dull repeating?)
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#33
(01-12-2016, 03:57 PM)Leonhard Wrote:
(01-12-2016, 03:49 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: You and I just do not and will not ever see eye to eye on some things.

I also have a bad tendency to find personal fault in things other peopl say. Also you can be annoying, you show up in all threads, say that you're not interested in intellectual discussion... then state your opinion anyway, and talk about how you only do this or that eastern spirituality, and the complain that you're not intellectual anyway.

Also what on Earth would you do if you came face to face with a fellow Eastern Catholic that you'd find liberal on all sorts of points... but who practiced the exact same spirituality as you... something you seem to imply, often (over and again) to be impossible, given that you believe the prayers themselves convey the right spiritual thinking to people?

Wow. ???
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#34
(01-12-2016, 04:05 PM)Leonhard Wrote: At any rate a life of prayer is something all should seek out. And something I hope I can get back to eventually. I practice something minimalistic, the three hail maries, meal prayers, and an ave (with a prayer for protection) everytime I come and leave my apartment (I'm putting up an Icon in my hallway).

Its almost nothing, but it keeps me being Catholic. And without prayer I have no doubt my faith would not survive.

"He who prays is certain to be saved. He who does not pray is certain to be damned." St. Alphonsus de Ligouri.

Right now I have frankly been burned out on it. Prayers did not help me through my depression, my family did. It did not help me conquor my impurity, only a friend of mine who had the same habit was capable of helping me there. It has not given me peace, or joy, or hope, it has only lead me to meditate soul crushingly on my own sinfulness and left me increasingly feeling like I'm running from Hell (which is catching up to me), and not running towards Heaven.

I'm tired of fighting, and being told you have to fight fifty times harder than you do now. Right now I need to focus on getting well enough not to commit suicide, or harm myself.

Not pray 500 times the Jesus Prayer everyday as some EO's brag that they do. (And you think the rosary prayer gets dull repeating?)

Well we don't really get along that well but man,I don't want you contemplating suicide or harming yourself. Prayers for you man, for whatever they are worth for you.

Personally I'm NOT interested in intellectual discussion, it's secondary to me. I'm more saying what's worked for me, and that's to put a lot of the questions aside. I have found a bit of peace spiritually from not thinking too much. I offer it to whoever will listen....but to each his own I guess.  :tiphat:
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#35
(01-12-2016, 03:29 PM)Leonhard Wrote:
Quote:The more you think and trust your mind the more apt you'll be to lose your faith once the next best argument comes along.

Thinking, and following 'the next best argument that comes along' was how I started the journey that made me a Catholic.

I guess I was wrong, huh?  :eyeroll:

I *think* ( :grin:)  you missed his point.  Or...you're just being overly sensitive and  argumentative...
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#36
I think I'm just in a very bad mood tonight, and tired of a lot of stuff. I'm sorry for my outburst Formerbuddhist, I tend to get irritated mighty quickly. Somehow reading about eastern or western spirituality always leaves me feeling depressed and hopeless.

I've had dark shadows under my eyes for months now.

Would you know I actually thought to myself regarding a friend of mine I've missioning to "I hope he doesn't become a Catholic... I'm one, and I doubt I'll be saved in the end, and what good would it have done him. He should enjoy the time he has left" Of course it was just a thought, since we all have hope, despite being told over and over again by the saints (east or west) how nearly impossible salvation is, or how anyone with attachments or habits can't have any hope of salvation until those habits have been purged.

I can't maintain the beliefs that its simultaniously almost impossible for non-monks to be saved, and that we all have good hope for salvation. I don't do well at double thinking, I can't both believe that stars are light years away, but that we could reach them with a tall ladder if we really wanted.

You understand that right.

Anyway off topic.
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#37
(01-12-2016, 04:24 PM)Leonhard Wrote: I think I'm just in a very bad mood tonight, and tired of a lot of stuff. I'm sorry for my outburst Formerbuddhist, I tend to get irritated mighty quickly. Somehow reading about eastern or western spirituality always leaves me feeling depressed and hopeless.

I've had dark shadows under my eyes for months now.

Would you know I actually thought to myself regarding a friend of mine I've missioning to "I hope he doesn't become a Catholic... I'm one, and I doubt I'll be saved in the end, and what good would it have done him. He should enjoy the time he has left" Of course it was just a thought, since we all have hope, despite being told over and over again by the saints (east or west) how nearly impossible salvation is, or how anyone with attachments or habits can't have any hope of salvation until those habits have been purged.

I can't maintain the beliefs that its simultaniously almost impossible for non-monks to be saved, and that we all have good hope for salvation. I don't do well at double thinking, I can't both believe that stars are light years away, but that we could reach them with a tall ladder if we really wanted.

You understand that right.

Anyway off topic.

I get that, but why not try to trust first and foremost the New Testament and our Lords words on the matter. No matter how many saints from east or west opine about who is or isn't saved or what chances we do or don't have its still doesn't trump what our Lord said,or what was said in the Epistles. None of the saints knew for sure. Some wrote or spoke in a way that was probably culturally conditioned. We ought to look at the words of Christ as being timeless. Just my two cents on the matter....

And as I said before in a different discussion, I don't take things personally here. Really I don't.  :)
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#38
I don't know why, but this thread just makes me wanna say, "Your mom's a universalist."
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#39
(01-12-2016, 06:18 PM)Papist Wrote: I don't know why, but this thread just makes me wanna say, "Your mom's a universalist."

That's kinda funny because my mom is a universalist.

I got good answers from emy, the emotional outburst at the end was unrelated to the thread, I just got really depressed this night. I spent some time with a friend, and that made me feel better.

Its 6AM I'll say my night prayers and go to bed, then I'll back out of this thread.
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