What are the chances that this is true?
#11
Rorate Caeli is one of the best news sources out there. I typically have no issue with them. Sometimes they run sensationalist articles, but they're nowhere near as bad as some others places (*cough* CM *cough*)
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#12
(03-22-2016, 02:57 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: I suppose we'll know in April, but it seemed quite clear even from 2014 that the pope was of Kasper's mind. Also, we had strong evidence that Synod 2014 was rigged and 2015 Synod was highly stacked by Kasperites, chosen by the pope himself. That even then the Synods would be ignored ? Again, no surprise.

I said it when the MPs were published, the Church will look like an Italian version of the Anglican Church. I'm no prophet, but it doesn't take a genius to kinda see we're going into deep darkness for the next centuries. Its imperative we don't compromise--to follow BXVI's advice : stay firm in the faith. And those who have children have an even graver and more solemn responsibility, because they'll be the future bishops, priests, monks, nuns, fathers and mothers.
This is heartbreakingly accurate
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#13
(03-22-2016, 04:40 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Ad hominem much ?

Ever heard the one about people in glass houses RF?

Quote:Let's review the article : it reports words of Kasper and reviews actions of the pope regarding communion. Then it goes on to speculate that the document will be your run of the mill « no doctrine was ever changed, but ».
Now, which parts of the article are absurd ?

How about the parts that engage in baseless speculation, that are little more than verbal hand grenades?  "He could do this! He could do that! I "predicted" that Benedict might resign so now I'm infallible!" Socci has scattered them for years and then he feigns surprise when one of them blows up.  His theatrics are legend in Rome.

Quote:See, its much easier to just attack the guy and proceed with the head burying.

I see...not giving equal weight to what amounts to tabloid Catholicism as I would to an actual Catholic journalist is burying my head in the sand....interesting.

Next you'll be chastising us for not being on the look-out for Petrus Romanus under every rock...
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#14
(03-22-2016, 05:40 PM)dcmaccabees Wrote:
(03-22-2016, 04:40 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Ad hominem much ?

Ever heard the one about people in glass houses RF?

Quote:Let's review the article : it reports words of Kasper and reviews actions of the pope regarding communion. Then it goes on to speculate that the document will be your run of the mill « no doctrine was ever changed, but ».
Now, which parts of the article are absurd ?

How about the parts that engage in baseless speculation, that are little more than verbal hand grenades?  "He could do this! He could do that! I "predicted" that Benedict might resign so now I'm infallible!" Socci has scattered them for years and then he feigns surprise when one of them blows up.  His theatrics are legend in Rome.

Quote:See, its much easier to just attack the guy and proceed with the head burying.

I see...not giving equal weight to what amounts to tabloid Catholicism as I would to an actual Catholic journalist is burying my head in the sand....interesting.

Next you'll be chastising us for not being on the look-out for Petrus Romanus under every rock...

Is this supposed to be a response ? Sounds like a long, boring ad hominem. Again.
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#15
Argumentum ad hominem isn't a fallacy when it examines the credibility of facts being presented.  It only becomes fallacious when the whole of the argument is the individual, their motives, etc.  Logic 101.

You're a smart guy, though.  You already knew that.

Anyway.

What's there to actually respond to?  Socci makes baseless claims in this piece: that the Pope is the "heretic pope", that Francis has a plans for a revolution..and all of it is based upon the unsubstantiated words of a third party in an Italian left-wing rag.  It's an almost perfect example of detraction. 

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#16
(03-22-2016, 07:14 PM)dcmaccabees Wrote: Argumentum ad hominem isn't a fallacy when it examines the credibility of facts being presented.  It only becomes fallacious when the whole of the argument is the individual, their motives, etc.  Logic 101.

You're a smart guy, though.  You already knew that.

Anyway.

What's there to actually respond to?  Socci makes baseless claims in this piece: that the Pope is the "heretic pope", that Francis has a plans for a revolution..and all of it is based upon the unsubstantiated words of a third party in an Italian left-wing rag.  It's an almost perfect example of detraction.

You keep dismissing the piece because, supposedly, Socci is a tabloid writer (and because.. Rorate! Oh noes!) and due to some book he doesn't even mention in the article. I'd call that a fallacy.

Nowhere he says the pope is "the 'heretic pope'". In fact, he says he the pope is avoiding this. And of course, its hardly news that people have claimed the pope has plans for revolution and is hardly news from the pope himself, who keeps invoking the god of surprises.

But of course, if people still don't see what's going on then there's nothing one can do or say to them--everything is fine, and then things happen and we just swallow them and accept the new religion. Enjoying your TLM ?

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#17
(03-22-2016, 04:44 PM)GangGreen Wrote: Rorate Caeli is one of the best news sources out there. I typically have no issue with them. Sometimes they run sensationalist articles, but they're nowhere near as bad as some others places (*cough* CM *cough*)

+1

Everything they predicted of this Pope on the day of his election, when many were falsely ignoring his history in Argentina, has turned out to be correct.  They were right about Synod 2014, Synod 2015, his penchant for liberal causes, playing fast and loose with doctrine, and his incessant degradation of tradition, Tradition, and traditionalists.  I would agree: they are the best news source out there.
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#18
I think that you should remember that the papacy is instituted by Jesus himself. He said to Peter, "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church. And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you."
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#19
(03-22-2016, 07:30 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote: You keep dismissing the piece because, supposedly, Socci is a tabloid writer (and because.. Rorate! Oh noes!) and due to some book he doesn't even mention in the article. I'd call that a fallacy.

And you'd be WRONG.

Socci is a tabloid journalist, something that anyone who's spent time in Rome knows.  To be fair he is devoted to Our Lady and did the Church a great service with his "Fourth Secret".  However, he is someone with an agenda and that agenda is quite clear from his incesiant promoting of his new book in Italian language media.

Rorate has it's good points, but it's alarmist, often for no legitimate reason.  Do we have women deacons? Womyn Priests? Eliminating Christianity from the Faith?  No?  Huh...

Quote:Nowhere he says the pope is "the 'heretic pope'". In fact, he says he the pope is avoiding this.

He said: "Tuttavia se è evidente il proposito di Bergoglio di ribaltare la Chiesa Cattolica, è anche vero che lui sa di dover agire con astuzia e gradualità, in modo da non cadere nella fattispecie del “papa eretico”, che pure è prevista dal diritto canonico, con tutto ciò che ne conseguirebbe."

He most assuredly does say that the Pope is internally a heretical Pope, but is walking a tightrope to avoid being labeled as such.  It's the entire point of the section titled "La Rana Bollita"!

Quote:And of course, its hardly news that people have claimed the pope has plans for revolution and is hardly news from the pope himself, who keeps invoking the god of surprises.

Cute, now you're implying that Francis is violating the 1st Commandment.  I suppose you're referring to the wretched English translation of his Italian homily where he said: "Non hanno capito che Dio è il Dio di sorprese, che Dio è sempre nuovo: non ha mai si contraddice, non dice mai che quello che aveva detto era sbagliato, mai, ma lui ci sorprende sempre. E non capivano, e si chiuse in questo sistema realizzato con le migliori intenzioni." That doesn't mean at all what you're insinuating. 

Quote:But of course, if people still don't see what's going on then there's nothing one can do or say to them--everything is fine, and then things happen and we just swallow them and accept the new religion. Enjoying your TLM ?

Child, if you sit in an echo chamber don't be surprised when that's all you hear.  Pão, pão, queijo, queijo.
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