Michael Voris comes out with his past sins....(Too much info)
#21
It appears some of his colleagues are distancing themselves from CMTV.
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#22
That may be a good thing. I think CM needs to be humbled and break away from those who may be pulling MV's strings a bit. A good example is Fr. Paul Nicholson who is extremely anti-SSPX and such. CM needs to go back to its roots as a place where people can learn about authentic Catholicism, learn about the crisis, and hope for a better Church. Instead, CM has distanced itself from traditional Catholic media in general and turned almost into a rag. Many have felt let down by them, I hope if anything this helps them change for the better.
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#23
(04-22-2016, 04:52 PM)Truecharity Wrote: It appears some of his colleagues are distancing themselves from CMTV.
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We have no idea whether this priest has "ceased doing business" with CM because of Voris's forthcoming video, though. I've had it happen to me NUMEROUS times that people jump to conclusions about me and my doings because of coincidences, timing, their own crazed imaginations, etc., and then spread rumors that are based on absolutely nothing and are not true.  I don't want to do that to anyone else.

I just hope CM gets past this. And that they also stop alienating so many trads with the anti-SSPX stuff (and I say this as someone who's never set foot in an SSPX chapel), the overly-protectionist attitude toward respectfully criticizing papal actions, etc. (there are a few people on their staff, though, whom I'd like to see go)
 
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#24
(04-22-2016, 06:21 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(04-22-2016, 04:52 PM)Truecharity Wrote: It appears some of his colleagues are distancing themselves from CMTV.
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We have no idea whether this priest has "ceased doing business" with CM because of Voris's forthcoming video, though. I've had it happen to me NUMEROUS times that people jump to conclusions about me and my doings because of coincidences, timing, their own crazed imaginations, etc., and then spread rumors that are based on absolutely nothing and are not true.  I don't want to do that to anyone else.

I just hope CM gets past this. And that they also stop alienating so many trads with the anti-SSPX stuff (and I say this as someone who's never set foot in an SSPX chapel), the overly-protectionist attitude toward respectfully criticizing papal actions, etc. (there are a few people on their staff, though, whom I'd like to see go)

Fr. Nicholson states the following for his followers:

"To save us all a lot trouble, let me say that I am more than happy to have anyone unfriend me who thinks that you can serve the Church by using: Rage (impersonating holy anger), Sarcasm, Gossip, Shame. These tactics belong to the world. These are not instruments that Catholics can use to reform the Church. The sexual revolution has ruined all of us. We are all loaded with self-hatred. That is why we need to try to be good children of God. That is why we must try to be Christian. The gay culture lives off of rage, sarcasm, gossip and shame. The gay culture destroys dioceses, religious orders, even noble attempts to serve the Church. I am done with the gay culture impersonating service to the Church. Done. Absolutely done. Unfriend me so we can go our separate ways. I am done catering to this pathology."

He has already unfriended dozens of "followers". I was never one of them.

Some quotes from diocesan (non-trad) Catholics.

"As it stands now, the real victim in all this is the Archdiocese of New York who're accused --without evidence-- of being gay-shaming bullies by Voris."

"Whatever some people in the Archdiocese of New York might have been planning, they will do nothing now. They would realise that it would be not only pointless but counterproductive now. But I think it is likely Michael Voris will have to make public the evidence he had; otherwise it would seem as though he were making an outrageous claim against the Archdiocese."
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#25
One more quote from Fr. Nicholson

"Those who are the most ardent fault finders are those who suffer from a deep self-hatred. Homosexual acts produces in an individual such self-loathing that it not surprising that the gay culture manifests itself in attacking with hostility. Unwittingly the culture of the Internet is dominated by this gay culture ... And today, many Catholics are so deformed that they have succumbed to it. That is why there are groups and individuals who can make a living off of bashing bishops. They survive on poorly formed Catholics. Do not follow or listen to anyone who bashes the sacred hierarchy. It is an evident sign they experience self-loathing. Even if the person has repented of deep sexual sins in their past, human nature will be infected by those sins. It can happen therefore that the prodigal son can turn into the elder brother. Have nothing to do with these forms of "apostolate"."
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#26
(04-22-2016, 06:54 PM)Truecharity Wrote: One more quote from Fr. Nicholson

"Those who are the most ardent fault finders are those who suffer from a deep self-hatred. Homosexual acts produces in an individual such self-loathing that it not surprising that the gay culture manifests itself in attacking with hostility. Unwittingly the culture of the Internet is dominated by this gay culture ... And today, many Catholics are so deformed that they have succumbed to it. That is why there are groups and individuals who can make a living off of bashing bishops. They survive on poorly formed Catholics. Do not follow or listen to anyone who bashes the sacred hierarchy. It is an evident sign they experience self-loathing. Even if the person has repented of deep sexual sins in their past, human nature will be infected by those sins. It can happen therefore that the prodigal son can turn into the elder brother. Have nothing to do with these forms of "apostolate"."

Though I love Christine Niles (she's a lovely person), I rarely listen to CM, so don't really know the tone of the place lately. But I can't imagine what is wrong with working to stop the "lavender mafia" from controlling "the gateways" -- such as to seminaries, etc. I don't consider that to be "bashing" in itself -- though I'm sure it could be done disrespectfully and cross over into "bashing" territory.

It's kind of "funny" that what Father is saying here is akin to what CM says about "bashing" the Pope. To me, respectful, honest criticism -- that doesn't involve rumor-mongering, detraction, calumny, reading thoughts and motivations into others, etc. -- of any member of the hierarchy, whether regular Bishop or the Bishop of Rome, is fine.
 
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#27
(04-22-2016, 07:08 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: It's kind of "funny" that what Father is saying here is akin to what CM says about "bashing" the Pope. To me, respectful, honest criticism -- that doesn't involve rumor-mongering, detraction, calumny, reading thoughts and motivations into others, etc. -- of any member of the hierarchy, whether regular Bishop or the Bishop of Rome, is fine.

Well said Vox.
And that is why I find these last quotes which I posted earlier to be pertinent:

"As it stands now, the real victim in all this is the Archdiocese of New York who're accused --without evidence-- of being gay-shaming bullies by Voris."

"Whatever some people in the Archdiocese of New York might have been planning, they will do nothing now. They would realise that it would be not only pointless but counterproductive now. But I think it is likely Michael Voris will have to make public the evidence he had; otherwise it would seem as though he were making an outrageous claim against the Archdiocese."

ETA:
What Voris should have done is, if he thinks it is necessary tell his life story without accusing NY diocese at all, at least not name them. Focusing on the Crucified Christ rather than his own personal reputation. Again his soul would not be damaged even there are untruth told about him. But God would not look kindly on him and his outfit even they produce lies about the Roman Pontiff on a daily basis, calling good evil and evil good.
He just opened up a can of worms by libel. For his sake I hope he can support with evidence what he claims.
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#28
The ties between Fr. Nicholson and Voris were quite strong in the past. So much so, that many people speculated that CM's massive swing in how they were operating (especially their anti-SSPX kick) was at least in part due to his influence. I'm not sure if this falling out is a result of the latest video or occurred before that.
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#29
(04-22-2016, 07:15 PM)Truecharity Wrote: Well said Vox.
And that is why I find these last quotes which I posted earlier to be pertinent:

"As it stands now, the real victim in all this is the Archdiocese of New York who're accused --without evidence-- of being gay-shaming bullies by Voris."

I don't understand that, though. They're saying that Michael Voris is accusing the NY Diocese of "gay-shaming"? What? What am I missing here? 'Splain it to me, TC; I feel stoopid!

Quote: "Whatever some people in the Archdiocese of New York might have been planning, they will do nothing now. They would realise that it would be not only pointless but counterproductive now. But I think it is likely Michael Voris will have to make public the evidence he had; otherwise it would seem as though he were making an outrageous claim against the Archdiocese."

ETA:
What Voris should have done is, if he thinks it is necessary tell his life story without accusing NY diocese at all, at least not name them. Focusing on the Crucified Christ rather than his own personal reputation. Again his soul would not be damaged even there are untruth told about him. But God would not look kindly on him and his outfit even they produce lies about the Roman Pontiff on a daily basis, calling good evil and evil good.
He just opened up a can of worms by libel. For his sake I hope he can support with evidence what he claims.

If it's true, it isn't libel. But then there's the matter of proving it's true. Morally, it could be detraction unless making known whatever sins or faults are in question is for the greater good. But my albeit uneducated sense of Mr. Voris is that he's a decent man and wouldn't engage in detraction.
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#30
(04-22-2016, 09:14 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: If it's true, it isn't libel. But then there's the matter of proving it's true. Morally, it could be detraction unless making known whatever sins or faults are in question is for the greater good. But my albeit uneducated sense of Mr. Voris is that he's a decent man and wouldn't engage in detraction.

How's calumny?


"If the SSPX comes into full communion, those who have attempted marriage in the SSPX will have to come to terms with the fact that their unions have never been true marriages from the beginning, and all of them must be convalidated. That's a bitter pill to swallow — for the couples, and for the SSPX itself, which has to bite the bullet and admit it offered (perhaps unwittingly) false sacraments." -M.V.

"The SSPX schism has been well documented. But the real issue is not their uncontested material schism, but their material heresy which they erroneously use to rationalize their schism."-M.V.

"The SSPX has a habit of setting up shop in a diocese — without the permission of the local bishop — and then poaching the faithful away from diocesan-approved Traditional Latin Mass communities, taking souls away along with their financial support"- M.V.

"The Society is not in an "irregular canonical status" – that is a made-up term by SSPX supporters. It is the Pope himself who has declared their status and that is none — no canonical status."-M.V.

"Despite various political reasons for not wanting to come right out with it, the SSPX is in schism"- M.V.

I think the burden of proof is on MV, not the Archdiocese.
He has lodged two major accusations against the Archdiocese of New York. But he has not offered any evidence to support his monumental claims — 1. The existence of a major homosexual ring whose activities are, at least to some extent, known allegedly by Cardinal Dolan. 2. The Archdiocese of New York was prepared to "out" him.

Michael Voris' claims against the Archdiocese of New York are akin to his claims against the SSPX being anti-Catholic and schismatic. He never produced evidence that counted. He never produced a Papal declaration that the SSPX was schismatic.
He has produced any evidence to support his claims against the Archdiocese of New York. Should he do so, then his claims would take on a different light.

I agree that Michael Voris, the man, our brother in Jesus Christ, needs our prayers
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