Michael Voris comes out with his past sins....(Too much info)
#93
(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: I am going to quote Greg (I think a former member here), nonetheless, he brings up good points in another forum.:

Quoting Greg:
"This is my objection to him continuing to be the public face of CMTV.

1. I doubt his repentance is sincere or at least fully "dealt with"

??? It's not our place to determine whether his repentance is sincere of "fully dealt with." That's up to his priest, God, and himself. We have no place whatsoever to judge Mr. Voris!

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: a. 20 years of sodomy from 25-44 is a very long time and a very conscious adult decision.

And your point is...? Before fully coming to the Church, people sin. After coming to the Church, people sin. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club for the perfect.

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: b. He didn't admit his past until 10 years into his apostolate.

He should't have had to "admit" them at ALL. Or, if you disagree, why don't you and Greg tell us all about y'all sins?

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: c. Homosexuals are master manipulators and liars and he is a media savvy homosexual. That means he has ALL of the tools to fool people and elicit their sympathy. Of all the candidates who could look sincere but be insincere Voris would have to be one of the most qualified.

This is completely ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: d. The dates on his conversion story don't wash with the story.

Nonsense.

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: 2. Where's the humility? A semi-intelligent look at the Traditional Catholic position would at the very least have to acknowledge the debt of gratitude the conservative camp owed to the SSPX Society. Without which modernism would have triumphed 30 years ago. Without the SSPX there is a very real chance that Voris would be a practicing sodomite today in good standing at his local rainbow parish because the church of old would be resigned to the dustbin of history.

I have a feeling that it's THIS that's at the root of your and Greg's judgmentalism toward Mr. Voris. You don't like his attitude toward the SSPX, so you're going to never "forgive" him for what isn't your place to "forgive" him for in the first place. You don't like his approach to the SSPX? Fine. But don't drag all this other stuff in as an excuse to dislike the man.

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: If you are sincere in your repentance you should at least be humbled by your 20 years of sodomy and departure from the sacraments that you would be very cautious about judging and condemning those who had been holding the fort while you were AWOL and buggering men. You don't appear in the Vineyard at two thirty and start calling the other workers who have been there since dawn "Spiritual Pornographers".

Everyone should be cautious about judging anyone, including you and Greg. But stopping the lavender mafia isn't a matter of "judging" anyone in se, and when it comes to detraction, it isn't detraction if there's good reason for stating truths that are hard to hear.

Further, you have no idea whatsoever whether Voris ever "buggered" anyone, so cut it out.

(04-27-2016, 05:11 PM)Truecharity Wrote: I'm not an SV nor a Russian Orthodox but I'd show those people the respect they have earned. Especially if I was late to the Vineyard!!!

3. He not merely speaking about the faith. He's very actively teaching and preachin it. He's lay's down what he believes is "the law". Furthermore things like retreat Cruises and gathering men aged 18-25 together in a house are near occasions of sin for a former sodomite. Retreats are really entering into the realm of the clergy. Laypeople are on thin ice here.

Discerning men's vocations? Gathering them together in a house? Surely a former sodomite who has a mature understanding of his sin and he weakness would not touch this idea with a 10 foot pole. Even if he is completely free of is lust (unlikely), how does it look to others if his 20 years of sodomy is then revealed.

As a thought experiment, Let's assume two Catholic men fathers of large families who have grown up, devout Catholics who have never lapsed decide to start a mission. The mission is to visit the stage door of pole dancing clubs and mission to the Puerto Rican and Mexican dancers to see if they can get them to change careers.

Most Catholics with good common sense would think this was really risky and a near occasion of sin. But they seem to be good at it and are having some success at getting the girls to quit and get other moral jobs.

Now pretend that one of those say 60 year old men had an arrest record for being a pepping Tom when he was 16 years old in 1972. A single occurrence. At that stage the whole equation changes. Not particularly because you think a 44 year old arrest record makes him significantly more of a threat but because you know that even the a slight charge like that can be manipulated and do more harm through scandal than the good the two of them can do.

Voris doesn't have a youthful indiscretion. He has an extremely sordid past. If he was truly sorry he would be very very alert to the scandal he could cause through these retreats and his utterly mad and dangerous "Pause" idea of gathering 18-25 year old men together."

We're called to teach the Faith, all of us. Once we repent of our sins, we're white as snow, purified, cleansed of them, no matter what they are.

Further, you have no idea what is an occasion of sin for Mr. Voris, and you have a seriously limited view of God's grace.

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Re: Michael Voris comes out with his past sins....(Too much info) - by VoxClamantis - 04-27-2016, 06:06 PM



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