First Novus Ordo.... so confused.
(05-03-2016, 08:49 AM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(05-03-2016, 07:28 AM)Pacman Wrote: I think the Novus Ordo can be celebrated in a reverent way. I find the Latin Mass to be more solitary and meditative. I try to think of the Novus Ordo as something akin to how the mass is celebrated in religious orders with lots of responsories and a more communal vibe. Perhaps this is what the motivations of the council fathers were at Vatican II - trying to bring laity further into community religious life. That's my guess, but I'm not a Vatican II expert.

I think your guess is basically accurate. They were inspired in many ways by the Byzantine rite, though this would surprise many Byzantine observers to learn. Over the centuries, and at some risk of over-simplification, the Roman Mass became a meditation on the Passion, and the Byzantine Divine Liturgy became a foretaste of the eschatological banquet. Of course the Passion and the Sacrifice of Calvary is not absent from the DL, just as the heavenly banquet is not absent from Holy Mass.

If I were to charitably interpret the intentions behind the NO, I think the reformers felt that the Roman tradition had focused on Calvary and propitiatory sacrifice, in response to Protestant heresies, to an extent that obscured the legitimate banquet aspect of the Mass. While perhaps a case could be made that this is true on the level of piety or devotion, I don't think that's an issue with the traditional Roman rites themselves. One of the main failures of the reform is that, while taking inspiration from the Byzantines, they didn't really do what Byzantines do. They did not produce a rite that suggests the heavenly banquet, but rather a simple meal. The "noble simplicity" they proffered doesn't work with the "banquet" theology. A Divine Liturgy suggests actually being in heaven with the constant singing, the abundance of icons, the clouds of incense, the ripidia, candles, and torches, the mystery of the iconostasis, the joy in the hymns, etc. The NO, by making everything optional, and generally being celebrated with an absolute minimum of ceremony, ensures this effect cannot be accomplished.

The NO, in jettisoning the particular genius of the Roman tradition, fails to clearly show forth the sacrifice, and, in misapplying the Byzantine tradition, fails to represent the eschatological banquet.

This is the fundamental problem with the NO.  The various changes, on their own, would generally be fine, but they don't really work together.  There were a lot of different ideas floating around during the days of the liturgical movement and reform pretty much just put them all altogether.  You provide the most fundamental examples, but even take something like the versus populum orientation of the priest.  When it was being experimented with in the '40s, the motivation was not so that the priest could engage the congregation more, but so that the congregation could better see and focus more on the sacrifice on the altar--so that they could see the sacramental actions and directly adore the sacrament.  This fit with where the Roman Rite had come (no iconostasis or rood screens, etc.).  But pair this with priests being told to encourage active participation (understood in various ways) and it easily led to the interaction between the priest and people becoming the focus.

As another example, either the simplification of the rites or a change to vernacular on their own would have led to better intelligibility and easier congregational participation, while still maintaining the sense of dignity or mystery--but put them both together and you get banality.

Messages In This Thread
First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by hemolymph - 05-02-2016, 02:22 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Zubr - 05-02-2016, 03:48 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by salus - 05-02-2016, 09:45 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Dave01 - 05-02-2016, 11:05 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Pacman - 05-03-2016, 07:28 AM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by SaintSebastian - 05-03-2016, 09:22 AM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Poche - 05-03-2016, 11:26 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Poche - 05-03-2016, 11:27 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Poche - 05-03-2016, 11:37 PM
Re: First Novus Ordo.... so confused. - by Poche - 05-03-2016, 11:41 PM

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