Christians should apologize for helping to marginalize gays, Pope says
#31
You have to understand that we have always been marginalized until recently.  The parades and gay culture all happens because we can not relate to straight men and find community and fellowship with each other.  The whole glorification of gay culture HAS NOTHING to do with gay people themselves. How could it? We are such a minuscule percentage of the population....the glorification of gay culture has happened because of STRAIGHT people with an agenda who hav  managed to brainwash a lot of other straight people. If you look at gays from a long time ago like Tennessee Williams, Oscar Wilde and others , they may have not led exemplary lives, but THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WHERE, and I am pretty sure they would be horrified to see the things that are accepted nowadays.

The whole "homosexual agenda" is not driven by gay people. They might be there like puppets holding signs and cheerleading, but less than 5 percent of the population can not bring about this type of change o their own.
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#32
(07-01-2016, 11:26 AM)spikepaga Wrote: You have to understand that we have always been marginalized until recently.  The parades and gay culture all happens because we can not relate to straight men and find community and fellowship with each other.  The whole glorification of gay culture HAS NOTHING to do with gay people themselves. How could it? We are such a minuscule percentage of the population....the glorification of gay culture has happened because of STRAIGHT people with an agenda who hav  managed to brainwash a lot of other straight people. If you look at gays from a long time ago like Tennessee Williams, Oscar Wilde and others , they may have not led exemplary lives, but THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WHERE, and I am pretty sure they would be horrified to see the things that are accepted nowadays.

The whole "homosexual agenda" is not driven by gay people. They might be there like puppets holding signs and cheerleading, but less than 5 percent of the population can not bring about this type of change o their own.

Though I have to beg to differ with you re. the idea that a small percentage of a population can't have an inordinate influence over what goes on, given AIPAC, the ADL, international bankers, etc., I agree with you in this case, when it comes to homosexuals.  The Powers That Be love to play divide and conquer games, and they use homosexuals as pawns toward their goals of destroying the family and shaming Christians.

When it comes to "Pride" parades and such, I understand the desire of homosexuals to participate in all that -- but think that "Pride" is not the right framing. Having "pride" for having a disorder makes no sense -- but expressing having no SHAME in having a disorder is something I can get behind. If, instead of "Gay 'Pride'", the focus were on "No Shame," I'd march right along with them, making clear that I march to push the point that homosexuals shouldn't feel shame for having the disorder, while also not condoning engaging in homosexual acts.

-- and when it comes to homosexual acts, I have compassion for those who stumble, repent, and truly strive to sin no more, just as I have that sort of compassion for heterosexual people who do the same. The ONLY Judge of souls is Lord Christ. Period, the end. We can only judge acts, and can only judge those acts in the objective order, not when it comes to moral culpability.

Bottom line, for me, is that we Catholics need to do more to teach people about the true Catholic stance about all this. SO many misunderstandings abound -- many of them, sadly, based on sloppy language used by some of our coreligionists, and, worse, based on the fact that *some* -- NOT all, NOT most of us -- have true "issues" when it comes to dealing with our homosexual brothers and sisters. One homosexual poster here posted, for ex., about how *some* Catholics act as if they have a right to pry, to have access to *highly* personal information about how homosexual live their lives (I'm reminded about how so many people thought they had "rights" to ask higly personal information about a male to female transsexual woman who posts here. Mind you, her story is different from those homosexuals have to tell (transsexualism is a different phenomenon from homosexuality), but the principle's the same when it comes to *some* folks thinking they had a *right* to ask highly personal, personally embarrassing, medical questions of her. It was so vile...)

While I totally disagree with Pope Francis shaming Christians (once again), I also do think we could do a LOT better in treating homosexual Catholics with true charity and respect. To that end, I think knowing how, and even whether, to engage in fraternal correction is a key thing, and all that's laid out on the "Conversion of the Heart" page. Our jobs as Catholics, with regard to homosexuals (many of whom are Catholics, with some being better Catholics than you are), is to make sure they know what Catholic teaching is; to not judge their souls; to not nag, pry, and to otherwise be prudent when engaging in necessary teaching; to not treat their potential sins as worse than our own; to judge ourselves before engaging in any necessary teaching; to help them stay chaste (just as we would with heterosexual single Catholics); to learn about the genesis of homosexuality,  to not disregard or treat as unimportant the love that homosexuals can feel for each other, the emotional needs they seek to fulfill in each other, and to not treat it or talk about it as if it's about nothing but where genitals go (a crucial point!); and to respect and love them as human beings beloved by God.
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#33
Spikepaga, if anything that is sadder still, for in an effort to gain any kind of acceptance, gays have become willing to embrace stuff that isolates them further and actually demeans them as human beings.  It is also a strong criticism of those around them who will not or cannot give them the message of love and truth that they deserve.

Quote:If you look at gays from a long time ago like Tennessee Williams, Oscar Wilde and others , they may have not led exemplary lives, but THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WHERE, and I am pretty sure they would be horrified to see the things that are accepted nowadays.
 
Contrast their accomplishments and aspirations with what we see today and the whole mess is more tragic. 

Do I know why?  Nope.  Do I wish it were better?  Of course!  Men and women deserve to be treated as such - even when they stumble and struggle with their sexuality.  Don't we all sin?
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#34
Vox,

Since we are on the topic, there was a great article on LifeSiteNews.com worth reading.  https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/sho...ze-to-gays
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#35
No, Mr. Pope. I will not apologize. There is no need to.
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#36
(07-01-2016, 11:26 AM)spikepaga Wrote: You have to understand that we have always been marginalized until recently.  The parades and gay culture all happens because we can not relate to straight men and find community and fellowship with each other.  The whole glorification of gay culture HAS NOTHING to do with gay people themselves. How could it? We are such a minuscule percentage of the population....the glorification of gay culture has happened because of STRAIGHT people with an agenda who hav  managed to brainwash a lot of other straight people. If you look at gays from a long time ago like Tennessee Williams, Oscar Wilde and others , they may have not led exemplary lives, but THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WHERE, and I am pretty sure they would be horrified to see the things that are accepted nowadays.

The whole "homosexual agenda" is not driven by gay people. They might be there like puppets holding signs and cheerleading, but less than 5 percent of the population can not bring about this type of change o their own.

Fair point. But I think there must be a lot of prominent homosexuals in senior executive positions of major companies. It seems to me that that is the only way to explain some of the developments in recent times. The only other explanation that I can think of is Zionism. Jews will leverage ideas which promote sexual immorality in order to weaken the gentile population.
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