Pope Francis stacks deck at Congregation of Divine Worship, a massacre
#31
(10-31-2016, 12:49 PM)Papist Wrote: What really bothers me is that the Church is supposed to sanctify the world; instead we have the world infiltrating the Church. Can Pope Francis please retire now????

This is the crux of the entire matter.  The Great Commission given by Christ to His only Church is to Teach all nations (the Faith) and baptize them.  To Sanctify and save souls
and convert all nations and peoples, period.  Even serving the poor is not the main commission of the Church. Anything that subverts this primary responsibility by ignoring it, re-interpreting it, insulting it (Francis "it's wrong to persuade someone of the Faith"!) is plainly false. End of Story.  This is what has always separated the true Catholic Church from all the schismatical and heretical "churches"  - It's Apostolic Mission in every period.

The Mystical Bride of Christ cannot be made false to her Spouse. 

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#32
(10-30-2016, 11:47 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 10:49 PM)PrairieMom Wrote: I'm just trying to get my head around this thing. If a pope falls into heresy, and therefore has apostized, the See will be vacant. But the Church continues, even if essentially an imposter is on the throne?

This "counter church" that Archbishop Sheen speaks of, does it exist within the walls of the actual Church? Say, for example, the Pontiff and the upper hierarchy become the de facto head of the counter church, where does that leave the actual Church?

IMO, you have to think Platonically when thinking about "the Church." The Church is a Platonic Idea with an earthly manifestation. She is one, holy, Catholic, apostolic, and eternal, an entity against which the gates of Hell will never prevail. She is the Bride of Christ, made One with Him, in the Flesh, through the Eucharist. Where will the earthly manifestation of this Church be? Where the Faith is kept, and where the Eucharist is validly offered.

Because the Church is a Platonic Idea, I am really picky about people talking about "the Church" doing anything negative. For ex., during the clerical sexual abuse scandal, which was awful but also not anything like the media made it out to be, it realllly rankled me to hear even Catholics talking about "'the Church' not doing enough" or "'the Church' allowing this or that";  the Church cannot do such things. Her human element can, but She cannot. Even if the Pope were to apostasize in a clear and obvious way, and even if 99% of self-professed Catholics were to follow him in his apostasy, the Church Herself would still be the one, holy, Catholic, apostolic, spotless Bride of Christ.

Okay, I guess I'm going to have to add Plato to my "to read" list, because I only 1/2 understood that.
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#33
(10-31-2016, 03:50 PM)PrairieMom Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 11:47 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 10:49 PM)PrairieMom Wrote: I'm just trying to get my head around this thing. If a pope falls into heresy, and therefore has apostized, the See will be vacant. But the Church continues, even if essentially an imposter is on the throne?

This "counter church" that Archbishop Sheen speaks of, does it exist within the walls of the actual Church? Say, for example, the Pontiff and the upper hierarchy become the de facto head of the counter church, where does that leave the actual Church?

IMO, you have to think Platonically when thinking about "the Church." The Church is a Platonic Idea with an earthly manifestation. She is one, holy, Catholic, apostolic, and eternal, an entity against which the gates of Hell will never prevail. She is the Bride of Christ, made One with Him, in the Flesh, through the Eucharist. Where will the earthly manifestation of this Church be? Where the Faith is kept, and where the Eucharist is validly offered.

Because the Church is a Platonic Idea, I am really picky about people talking about "the Church" doing anything negative. For ex., during the clerical sexual abuse scandal, which was awful but also not anything like the media made it out to be, it realllly rankled me to hear even Catholics talking about "'the Church' not doing enough" or "'the Church' allowing this or that";  the Church cannot do such things. Her human element can, but She cannot. Even if the Pope were to apostasize in a clear and obvious way, and even if 99% of self-professed Catholics were to follow him in his apostasy, the Church Herself would still be the one, holy, Catholic, apostolic, spotless Bride of Christ.

Okay, I guess I'm going to have to add Plato to my "to read" list, because I only 1/2 understood that.

I get what is being said here, but I think that the Platonic analogy here can be a bit dangerous. The Church is incarnational, and Platonic philosophy is the anti-thesis of an incarnational mindset.
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#34
(10-31-2016, 04:11 PM)Papist Wrote:
(10-31-2016, 03:50 PM)PrairieMom Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 11:47 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(10-30-2016, 10:49 PM)PrairieMom Wrote: I'm just trying to get my head around this thing. If a pope falls into heresy, and therefore has apostized, the See will be vacant. But the Church continues, even if essentially an imposter is on the throne?

This "counter church" that Archbishop Sheen speaks of, does it exist within the walls of the actual Church? Say, for example, the Pontiff and the upper hierarchy become the de facto head of the counter church, where does that leave the actual Church?

IMO, you have to think Platonically when thinking about "the Church." The Church is a Platonic Idea with an earthly manifestation. She is one, holy, Catholic, apostolic, and eternal, an entity against which the gates of Hell will never prevail. She is the Bride of Christ, made One with Him, in the Flesh, through the Eucharist. Where will the earthly manifestation of this Church be? Where the Faith is kept, and where the Eucharist is validly offered.

Because the Church is a Platonic Idea, I am really picky about people talking about "the Church" doing anything negative. For ex., during the clerical sexual abuse scandal, which was awful but also not anything like the media made it out to be, it realllly rankled me to hear even Catholics talking about "'the Church' not doing enough" or "'the Church' allowing this or that";  the Church cannot do such things. Her human element can, but She cannot. Even if the Pope were to apostasize in a clear and obvious way, and even if 99% of self-professed Catholics were to follow him in his apostasy, the Church Herself would still be the one, holy, Catholic, apostolic, spotless Bride of Christ.

Okay, I guess I'm going to have to add Plato to my "to read" list, because I only 1/2 understood that.

I get what is being said here, but I think that the Platonic analogy here can be a bit dangerous. The Church is incarnational, and Platonic philosophy is the anti-thesis of an incarnational mindset.

LOL, I understood that even less!
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#35
UPDATE
Edward Pentin reports from Rome that some of the prelates that were earlier reported as removed from the CDW in fact still remain.
"VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis made a major overhaul last week to the membership of the Vatican’s department for the liturgy, but his new appointments are not quite as sweeping as some had suggested, according to a full list of previous and new members obtained by the Register.

On Oct. 28, the Vatican announced the Holy Father had appointed 27 new members to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, many of whom come from a wide variety of nations to give the dicastery an international character.

However, although the Pope dismissed such prominent cardinals as Raymond Burke, Marc Ouellet and George Pell, he renewed the membership of nine others, including Cardinal Malcolm Ranjith, a former secretary of the congregation under Benedict XVI; Cardinal Mauro Piacenza, head of the Apostolic Penitentiary; and Cardinal Peter Erdö, the former general rapporteur at the synod on the family.

Like those who have been replaced, these three renewed members are known to be “Ratzingerians,” closely aligned to Benedict XVI’s vision for the Church. (See below for full list of names.)

Members of Vatican congregations are usually cardinals and bishops chosen for their “special expertise” related to each dicastery. They attend annual plenary meetings “to deal with questions involving general principles and for other questions which the prefect or president may have deemed to require treatment,” according to Pope St. John Paul II’s 1988 apostolic constitution, Pastor Bonus, on the running of the Roman Curia.

“They don’t set the agenda,” said a Vatican source, but he added that those living in Rome will often attend meetings held twice a month, called a feria quarta (on Wednesdays), “when major issues of the moment are discussed.”

Usually, he said, they do “very little,” although they may vote on a previous decision and overturn it, vote on documents being put out, or express preferences on individual case decisions.

“They are all guided by the prefect, who decides what is put before them,” said the source. “The Pope is the one who ultimately decides, but at the suggestion of the prefect, although the Pope is, of course, free to get more closely involved if he wants to. That remains to be seen.”

Read more here: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/ass...ne-worship

C.
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