If saved by faith and works, then how can we be saved at death?
#11
When we think of Lent there is a push for prayer, penance, and alms giving. Alms of course can take the form of spiritual and corporal works of mercy. This is something that should always be followed by a Catholic. With faith all of these things have merit. Without it, they are worthless. If one has faith and does not pray, do penance, and give alms then their faith is dead. If one prayss, does penance, and gives alms but does so emptily without faith, then these works give no merit.

The more someone excels in faith coupled with works, the closer they grow to God. It's quite simple in that matter. How can one be close to God without faith? How can one be close to God without praying? without doing penance and avoiding sin? Without doing good deeds? Praying for others? etc? If a person says "I believe in Jesus!" but does not follow His commandments which entail all of these things, then what kind of faith do they have? Do they even know God?
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#12
Is your brother Protestant?

I would emphasize that we are saved by God's grace, which is His gift to us. However, we can lose that grace if we die choosing the devil over God (mortal sin without repentance). You can show him scriptures (if he's leery of Catholic Bibles, you can show him in his own) which explain how we can lose our salvation. Then you can show him the scriptures which show the value of repentance and conversion to a soul. This could lead nicely into a conversation about the necessity of the Sacraments.
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#13
(03-15-2017, 12:26 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: My brother asked me this question, and I have been trying to think of an approptiate answer to give.

Quote:Alright, so Catholics believe that you are not saved by faith alone correct?
Wouldn't that mean that people who convert on their deathbed still wouldn't achieve salvation?
Because they didn't accomplish any works of their faith

If anyone has the answer to this question, I would really appreciate knowing. 

Thank you!

He is assuming conversion only entails an act of Faith.

Conversion also requires repentance ( contrition for sins) and the reception of Baptism in addition to a positive profession of the (Catholic) Faith.

The theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused into the soul at Baptism.

Pope Paul III, Council of Trent, Session 6, Chap. 7 on Justification, ex cathedra: “… the instrumental cause [of Justification] is THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM, WHICH IS ‘THE SACRAMENT OF FAITH,’ without faith no one is ever justified… THIS FAITH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH APOSTOLIC TRADITION, CATECHUMENS BEG OF THE CHURCH BEFORE THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM, when they ask for ‘faith which bestows life eternal,’ (Rit. Rom., Ordo Baptismi) which without hope and charity faith cannot bestow.”

Those who espouse Baptism of Desire would need to say that the death bed convert receives the sacrament "in voto" if that was their hypothetical case.

Baptism (where we are baptized into Christ's death ) saves us. "Baptism now saves you." (1 Peter 3:21)

So, there would be more involved here.
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#14
To me salvation (or Justifcation) was the result of grace.  One professing faith
(03-15-2017, 12:26 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: My brother asked me this question, and I have been trying to think of an approptiate answer to give.

Quote:Alright, so Catholics believe that you are not saved by faith alone correct?
Wouldn't that mean that people who convert on their deathbed still wouldn't achieve salvation?
Because they didn't accomplish any works of their faith

If anyone has the answer to this question, I would really appreciate knowing. 

Thank you!

No it wouldn't.  I think it is important to explain to Protestants that the Church teaches 'one is saved by Grace', rather than 'faith and works', while the latter accurately describes the process...it still gives the Protestant this idea that somehow a Catholic has to kiss statues and lick the Pope's boots in order to be saved.

The Church teaches that man receives Justification by cooperating with the assistance of divine grace to acquire faith, by embracing God and rejecting sin.  This though prepares the man for Justification, it is through the Sacraments he actually receives Justification or the actual cleansing of the soul.  Baptism or Penance are the two Sacraments that remit sins and justify man, by removing the stain of sin (Original Sin in the case of Baptism) and making him into a just, righteous man before God.  Yet, the Church teaches that it is not enough to simply have faith, for "faith without works is dead."  It is through cooperation with the divine grace, that man increases his Justification and Sanctification via works of charity, not for his own boasting or self-righteousness, but for the glory of God and His Kingdom.

In short, this is how a man can still be saved upon their deathbed, and yet the Doctrine on Justification still remain true.  It is by the Grace of God that we are saved, and our cooperation with that grace.  Man is saved by acquiring faith in God, brought forth by divine grace, and increasing in holiness by performing acts of charity to advanced the Kingdom of God...yet all comes through Grace.

Ask your brother if Moses would have been Justified if in the desert he said to God at the burning bush "I believe!" and then went home and spent the rest of his life being a Bedouin goat farmer, while the Hebrews in Egypt remained in bondage.  Or Peter saying "Lord I believe!" and then went home and remained a fisherman after Christ explicitly commanded him to "feed His lambs."
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#15
Have I perchance strayed into a Calvinist forum?
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#16
(03-16-2017, 02:03 PM)voltape Wrote: Have I perchance strayed into a Calvinist forum?

No.  :)
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#17
“Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God’s mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.” (Emphasis mine-JM)

—St. John Chrysostom
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