My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants.
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(03-16-2017, 11:15 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote:
(03-16-2017, 09:31 AM)Melkite Wrote: I don't see any other way around this.  To believe that God punishes infants for original sin alone is to profess belief in an unjust God.

- Humans are given no choice in whether they will come into existence.
- We are not capable of sinning at an age where our own consciousness is not yet fully developed, much less an ability to reason.
- Despite the caveat from the Church, it is not logically possible that people who did not yet exist somehow mystically participated in Adam's sin.  His sin was his alone and, regardless of whether his sin had the effect of altering physical reality for everyone else, it was a choice that he alone made.  For someone to be born in this state and to be condemned solely for being born in this state is a travesty of the word "justice."
- If it is just for God to punish people for being in a state that they had no control over, had no say over, in fact are merely a victim of, it makes the word 'justice' completely devoid of meaning.

This becomes even more horrifying if it is true that the majority of Christian faithful, throughout the history of the Church, believed God to judge unbaptized infants in such a way.  It means the majority of the Church believed in a God that was logically incapable of true justice on this issue.  I think it would behoove Catholics to really look into their hearts and see what it means about their God and themselves if they really believe such an objectively irrational teaching.

I completely agree. Supposedly, some popes, saints, and councils do not agree. I understand the theology of baptism and of original sin, but I also understand that God is not limited by the Sacraments. This is how there can be baptism of desire, baptism of blood, and perfect contrition through which mortal sin is forgiven without confession.

But nobody ever taught this for infants.

For example, St Augustine- up to the time of St. Thomas Aquinas, theologians taught unbaptized infants go to Hell and are in fire.

For a short time some taught infants are spiritually tormented by the loss of the beatific vision. Then there was taught that they are in a painless state, and finally until modern times that they enjoy natural happiness in Limbo.

But what's the common thread? They all taught they were in hell. Limbo is part of hell. So the binding tradition is really one of infant damnation, that's not the issue. The issue is this question l: "What is the nature of their damnation?"

Here is my answer- the nature of their eternal damnation corresponds to God's just punishment of them on this life, because the justice of God is consistent. He destroyed the whole of Sodom and Gomorrah in fire from heaven, infants included. He destroyed the earth in a flood, infants included. He sent his angel to kill all the firstborn of Egypt. He ordered the entire destruction Canaanite people's, infants included.

If these are all acts of Gids justice, and acts of divine punishment, then that which is in them is worthy of such punishment precisely because he is NOT unjust.

And Limbo supporters, ask yourself:

Are the souls of unbaptized infants sheep or goats? Are their names written in the book of life? Do they undergo the second death? In their particular judgment, does Christ say "Well done" or "depart from me?"

It's really stacked against positive natural happiness, this is why it was unchallenged 800 years.
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Re: My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants. - by Gregory I - 03-16-2017, 11:25 AM



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