My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants.
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(03-16-2017, 01:08 AM)Gregory I Wrote: I just finished writing a 14 page paper in the vein of a soliloquy on the torments of unbaptized infants. It cites the dogmatic decrees of the Church, her condemned propositions, and the scriptures and synthesizes a view which is already allowable in the Church (Vindicated as a legitimate opinion by Cardinal Enrico Norris in the 18th century and confirmed as such by Pope Benedict XIV).

The theme is that any positing of Limbo as a place of PERFECT NATURAL HAPPINESS OF THE KIND ENJOYED BY ADAM BEFORE THE FALL is Pelagian and erroneous. Note, I am not a Jansenist and roundly condemn them as heretics. I subscribe to everything written by all the Popes, including Pope Pius VI in Auctorem Fidei. I label no man a heretic, and do not consider a man who holds to such a view of Limbo as a formal heretic, though I consider this view erroneous and materially proximate to heresy.

Please read and give me your thoughts.

Let us end with a psalm of Moses:

“A fire is kindled in my wrath, and shall burn even to the lowest hell: and shall devour the earth with her increase, and shall burn the foundations of the mountains. [23] I will heap evils upon them, and will spend my arrows among them. [24] They shall be consumed with famine, and birds shall devour them with a most bitter bite: I will send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the fury of creatures that trail upon the ground, and of serpents. [25] Without, the sword shall lay them waste, and terror within, both the young man and the virgin, the sucking child with the man in years.”

Happy reading!

Do you believe in Limbo at all?  If you do, who would go there besides unbaptized babies?

Those upbaptized babies are not able to see the beatific vision, I agree.  That is just dogma.

Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, canons on the Sacrament of Baptism, canon 5, ex cathedra: “If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation (cf. Jn. 3:5): let him be anathema.”

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442, ex cathedra: “Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil [original sin] and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people…”

Pope Martin V, Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 - Condemning the articles of John Wyclif  - Proposition 6: “Those who claim that the children of the faithful dying without sacramental baptism will not be saved, are stupid and presumptuous in saying this.” -Condemned


Pope St. Zosimus, The Council of Carthage, Canon on Sin and Grace, 417 A.D.- “It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: ‘In my Father’s house there are many mansions’ [John 14:2]: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema.”

Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, On Original Sin, Session V, ex cathedra:  “If anyone says that recently born babies should not be baptized even if they have been born to baptized parents; or says that they are indeed baptized for the remission of sins, but incur no trace of the original sin of Adam needing to be cleansed by the laver of rebirth for them to obtain eternal life, with the necessary consequence that in their case there is being understood a form of baptism for the remission of sins which is not true, but false: let him be anathema.”


But positive torment in the same part of Hell of those who have committed actual sin?

Sure it was proposed by St. Augustine and allowed as an opinion, but never formally adopted by the Church. 

A person above the age of reason has graces sent to him and if he cooperates with those lights, follows the Natural Law and maintains good will, he is on the way to salvation and God will in due time send him what he needs to believe and Holy Baptism.  A miscarried baby or infant has no such chance of this and therefore a positive punishment would seem to vitiate against God's perfect justice.

"The Limbo of Children – It is of faith that all, children and adults, who leave this world without the Baptism of water, blood or desire and therefore in original sin are excluded from the Vision of God in Heaven. The great majority of theologians teach that such children and unbaptized adults free from grievous actual sin, enjoy eternally a state of perfect natural happiness, knowing and loving God by use of their natural powers. This place and state is commonly called Limbo." (Definition from A Catholic Dictionary, 1951)

*For the record I disagree with the above as it pertains to adults

“Suarez, for example, ignoring Bellarmine’s protest, continued to teach what Catharinus had taught — that unbaptized children will not only enjoy perfect natural happiness, but that they will rise with immortal bodies at the last day and have the renovated earth for their happy abode (De vit. et penat., ix, sect. vi, n. 4); and, without insisting on such details, the great majority of Catholic theologians have continued to maintain the general doctrine that the children’s limbo is a state of perfect natural happiness, just the same as it would have been if God had not established the present supernatural order” 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Limbo Summary

This is just a private revelation to St. Bridget and not the Magisterium but it seems in keeping with God's Justice:

First question. Again he appeared on his ladder as before, saying: "O Judge, I ask you: Why does one infant emerge alive from the mother's womb and obtain baptism, while another, having received a soul, dies in the mother's belly?"

Answer to the first question. The Judge answered: "You ask why one infant dies in the mother's belly while another emerges alive. There is a reason. All the strength of the child's body comes, of course, from the seed of its father and mother; however, if it is conceived without due strength, because of some weakness of its father or mother, it dies quickly. As a result of the negligence or carelessness of the parents as well as of my divine justice, many times it happens that what was joined together comes apart quickly.

Yet a soul is not brought to the harshest punishment for this reason, however little time it had for giving life to the body, but, rather, it comes to the mercy that is known to me. Just as the sun shining into a house is not seen as it is in its beauty - only those who look into the sky see its rays - so too the souls of such children, though they do not see my face for lack of baptism, are nevertheless closer to my mercy than to punishment, but not in the same way as my elect." - The Revelations of St. Bridget, Book 5, Interrogation 6, Question 1

“But consider my goodness and mercy! For, as the teacher says, I give virtue to those who do not have any virtue. By reason of my great love I give the kingdom of heaven to all of the baptized who die before reaching the age of discretion. As it is written: It has pleased my Father to give the kingdom of heaven to such as these. By reason of my tender love, I even show mercy to the infants of pagans. If any of them die before reaching the age of discretion, given that they cannot come to know me face to face, they go instead to a place that it is not permitted for you to know but where they will live without suffering.”
- The Revelations of St. Bridget, Book 2, Chapter 1

St Anselm, St Peter Damien, St Bernard of Clairvaux, Peter Lombard, St Albert the Great, St Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, Bl John Duns Scotus, St Anthony Padua, Francisco Suarez
, Pope St Pius V,  St Lawrence of Brindisi, St Francis de Sales, St John of the Cross, St Peter Canisius, St Robert Bellarmine, St Alphonsus Liguori, Pope St Pius X, among others, all held to this notion of Limbo for unbaptized babies, and not a positive torment in Hell.
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Re: My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants. - by BC - 03-16-2017, 12:31 PM



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