My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants.
(03-16-2017, 07:39 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(03-16-2017, 07:16 PM)Gregory I Wrote: That's all a nice allowable opinion within limits, but not my main point. My MAIN point is that it most certainly is pelagian to posit unbaptized infants in a state of PERFECT natural happiness, the very happiness of Adam in Eden before he fell. This is precisely what he LOST for all of us, not the beatific vision which he did not have. They cannot therefore exist in such a state without reversing the penalties of original sin. My second point was that their punishment in this life typifies their punishment in the next, for in the end all that is left is the New Jerusalem and a lake of fire. And unbaptized infants simply are not written in the book of life therefore they must share in the common end of the reprobate, just as it is typified in the Old Testament where they shared in the destruction of Noah's flood, which was sent to destroy WICKEDNESS.

Perhaps they can exist in some grey painlessness, but not perfect natural happiness. Such a view actually destroys original sin. For if the just reward of their soul is perfect natural happiness apart from the body, then they certainly were entitled to it IN the body. But that means at conception each person would be in the state of Adam before the fall, therefore there is no original sin and infants are not baptized for its remission.

What was lost after Eden was more than just "natural" happiness; it was supernatural happiness, infused grace. Unbaptized babies, normatively anyway, don't have infused grace. Hence they won't experience any Eden-like scenario in Limbo as Adam and Eve experienced Eden. But natural happiness is a different thing, having nothing to do with infused grace.

Well I can agree, but that's not the entire point. Really, are they sheep or goats? Goats. Are they elect or reprobate? Reprobate. Are they in the book of life, or not? Not. So their eternal destiny must be bound up with the destiny of all those others who will be cast into the lake of fire.  Just as the destiny of all those other infants of the Old Testament were bound up with those other actual sinners.

Moreover, in the Law of Moses, those things that are mortal sins are punished with physical death. For example those caught in adultery were stoned. Those children who were rebellious were put to death outside the camp.

God was teaching Israel about the eternal penalty of sin through earthly penalties. Similarly in his OWN just decrees he called for the entire extermination of entire peoples to show forth all of our implication in the sin of Adam. And he punished all with the same punishment.  He therefore images the last judgment where the great and small stand before the just judge. And all the goats, great and small are punished together, and all the just, great and small, are rewarded together. It's typology really.

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Re: My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants. - by Gregory I - 03-16-2017, 08:59 PM

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