My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants.
(03-16-2017, 11:25 PM)In His Love Wrote:
(03-16-2017, 11:18 PM)Gregory I Wrote:
(03-16-2017, 10:13 PM)In His Love Wrote: Loss of the Beatific Vision, which applies to those in Limbo, is a very profound punishment.

We aren't talking about people who never saw a priest for Baptism because they railed against Our Lord or were too lukewarm to see its necessity. We're talking about tiny babies who were dismembered or experienced one of the other gruesome forms of abortion. We're talking about the miscarried, the stillborn, those for whom Baptism would have been difficult or impossible to provide outside of divine intervention.

"There are more things in Heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet

There is no such things as impossibility of baptism. All the elect who are saved are saved simply because God wills it, and all those who are lost are so because they deserve it. This is merely sentimental theology. God does not serve the goddess "Fortune" or Chance. If there infants who are not saved, he did not grant them the grace to be saved, let's be clear on that. Nothing is outside his care, will and providence.
Do you think St. Thomas Aquinas was sentimental when he said these souls receive perfect natural happiness? You reject his view of Limbo because, by your own admission, you do not understand it, but then you make a sweeping generalization about all these babies. God has a direct will and a permissive will. It isn't the direct will of God for a woman to allow a doctor to butcher her child in the womb; He permits it for a time and eventually, if unrepented, there is a punishment for that. But to say that that precious child who never had a chance at life on earth is now suffering some degree of torment in addition to the loss of the Beatific Vision just doesn't line up with the theologians, including the Angelic Doctor whom the Popes gave such high praise to.

In my personal opinion, you have a very narrow view of God.

Well yes because it is constrained by dogmas and the teachings of scripture. But I am not opposed to being wrong, but I also don't see how the fathers and doctors for 800 years after Augustine were all wrong. This is their teaching after all. Now, you admit they can be in error on this point for so long, but then who is to say St. Thomas did not err on this point? You point to the unanimity of the scholastics after Aquinas, I point to the Latin Fathers after Augustine.

But if we were to go by strict dogmatic statements and condemned propositions, this is what we could say positively for certain with dogmatic and doctrinal certitude-

The dogmas of the Church have clearly taught that infants inherit original sin. They have clearly taught that the punishment for original sin is death of the body and death of the soul. They have clearly taught that the whole man was changed for the worse, body and soul, in addition to his loss of the preternatural gifts of integrity and sanctifying grace. They have clearly taught that in such a state man is a slave of the devil, subject to the wrath of God, his enemy, and that God hates the original sin that dwells within them. They have clearly taught that the guilt of the original sin is in each man as his own and that it is punished eternally by a descent into hell.

The condemned propositions of the Church made outside of ecumenical councils have clearly taught that unbaptized infants will not go to a terrestrial paradise or the abode of their parents, Christian or Pagan. They have clearly taught that those infants who die in original sin descend to a place of guilt and punishment that is not a middle place between heaven and hell. They have clearly taught that it is not Pelagian to assign infants to a place of guilt and punishment that is without fire (Though it necessarily remains a place of guilt and punishment).

Every EVERY single statement has a corresponding dogma or magisterial decree, especially my favorite, the condemnation of the Armenian error that the souls of unbaptized children go to a terrestrial paradise.

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Re: My Soliloquies on the kinds of torments of unbaptized infants. - by Gregory I - 03-16-2017, 11:46 PM

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