Fear Asking girls out/talking to them and dating
#1
I was wondering if any of the men here (women could obviously give their advice as well Smile ) had any advice as a means of getting over fear of asking women out and also in regards to dating in general. To begin with I should say that I feel that I have made huge progess from where I used to be.

I feel that I should start by giving content to where I am coming from.

I used to be very, very socially ackward. I never really had a dad, my mom was a single mother and I was diagnozed with OCD and Tourette Syndrome. Obviously this made me socially ackward and I used to get teased on a Huge amount at school and by family peers, cousins, etc... In top of that I was completely shy and like I mentioned socially ackward. I hardly spoke a word.

Throughout the years I made small improvements but they were small. But I was still largely socially ackward and really shy. Then I came back to the faith and started to be part of Catholic groups. Mostly a men's brotherhood with faith formation and fellowship. I also did door to door evangelization. Through these groups I felt that I was pushed to get out of my comfort zone and be more socially outgoing. I feel that I definitely became more assertive and outgoing in general, albeit not perfectly.

Recently I joined and have become active in two main young adult groups in two different dioceses and I have interacted with people my age. (I am 23). I definitely feel that these young adult groups have definitely helped further my progress regarding becoming less shy and more socially assertive and outgoing.

The problem right now that I see is that although I have made huge improvements I feel that there are aspects of shyness, a lack of assertiveness, and some social ackwardness especially when it comes to liking a girl and wanting to get to know them more. I feel that I don't generally have a problem talking to people of the opposite sex in general. At least not anymore. I have hung out multiple times with people of the opposite sex both in groups and individually. However when it comes to actually liking someone and desiring to ask them to hang out, go on a date, or simply ask them that I would like to get to know them better I feel that I become a total wuss. And I feel that I allow fear of rejection and just fear in general to take control of me. And there has been many times when I felt like asking a girl out on a date, or simply to hang out individually or simply that I would like to get to know them better that I totally miss the opportunity and do not act because of fear.

I also feel that it is hard for me to carry out and have a meaningful conversation with someone that I like. And I am terrified of even calling them over the phone (I actually find that more daunting than talking to them in person).

I went on a date last year with someone that I came to know quite well. I told her through text how I really felt about her. But I noticed that the whole time I felt nervous of talking to her and it was hard for me to have meaningful conversations, tell her how I felt, and even things like calling her over the phone. The thing is that I was perfectly fine talking to her and even hanging out with her as friends and I notice the same is true with other girls but the moment I actually have any type of feelings for them everything changes and I get overly nervous.

I could really use some advice as to how it could be possible to get over this nervousness or at the very least not allow it to prevent me from discerning my vocation.
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#2
As the Queen of Dating, I think I am qualified to answer here in the About Men forum.  LOL

You know what Arturo? Everything you wrote here is really quite common of everyone when they start dating. Take some comfort in that.  Smile

If you want to get over your fear of asking a girl out, all you can really do is ask a girl out. Once you get over that big hurdle, you will see it is not as scary as you think. The more you do it, you get used to it. All of us have gone through that fear of rejection but, you know what? It’s not the end of the world. You brush yourself off and move on. Sure, rejection stings but you’ll see you survived in the end. If you want to gain assertiveness and overcome shyness, that comes with believing in yourself and your abilities. This comes with the experience of simply asking a girl to hang out. So, if you get the opportunity, push yourself to ask a girl out for a coffee or a church event. Obviously, you want to hear "yes!" but if she says no, that's fine too! The main thing is that you've went ahead and asked her.

It’s perfectly normal to be nervous when talking with someone you like. All of us can speak freely with friends or groups but it’s different when we like someone. Why? We place added pressure on ourselves. We get the jitters and don’t want to say something stupid that will change the other person’s opinion of us. So, find topics that you both like and ones that cause you both to “want to” keep the conversation going. For instance, when I met my husband, he gave me a massive case of the butterflies. I was literally tongue-tied. So, we talked about things that we could spend hours on, from MMA to dogs. In this way, your fears of speaking one-on-one become secondary in the background and you still feel as though you are talking with a friend. You said in your post that you’re fine when you’re speaking as friends but things change when you develop feelings. Take the pressure off of yourself and perceive any possible relationship as a really deep friendship first. Again, once you let conversation run freely without any pressure, you’ll feel the nervousness slowly lift.

As for talking on the phone, I don’t know what to suggest. I have the same problem since I hate my voice.  LOL  I think when we’re talking on the phone, all those “awkward silences” are much more obvious and then our nervousness increases because we feel like fools. But, I figure it’s like anything else. Practice helps.

According to your post, you've put a lot of work into overcoming your social awkwardness and come a long way. That's commendable! So, look at your experiences of dating, or getting to know girls as more than friends, as the next phase in your story and focus on working on this now. Best wishes and God Bless.
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#3
I know I might get flak for this here, but I highly suggest the book Day Bang  by Roosh. Despite the provocative title it's really good at breaking down encounters between the opposite sex as simply a conversation on a neutral topic. He teaches you to simply be non threatening and interested in something, whether it's a prop,the venue or just some other conversational piece.We all small talk with people all the time, girls are no different. Just the fact that you are actually some random guy talking to a woman outside is already proof enough to her that you're bolder than the average guy. Seriously this stuff is pretty good. I am now in a long term thing with a girl I met who just turned 21 and I'm 35! Just start by learning how to have a conversation. Take it easy on yourself too.
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#4
Sometimes fear is God's way of telling us "not this one"
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#5
(04-01-2017, 06:12 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: I know I might get flak for this here, but I highly suggest the book Day Bang  by Roosh. Despite the provocative title it's really good at breaking down encounters between the opposite sex as simply a conversation on a neutral topic. He teaches you to simply be non threatening and interested in something, whether it's a prop,the venue or just some other conversational piece.We all small talk with people all the time, girls are no different. Just the fact that you are actually some random guy talking to a woman outside is already proof enough to her that you're bolder than the average guy. Seriously this stuff is pretty good. I am now in a long term thing with a girl I met who just turned 21 and I'm 35! Just start by learning how to have a conversation. Take it easy on yourself too.

Why would any Catholic give flak about a book written by a guy who advocates for legalizing rape?
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#6
(04-02-2017, 02:57 AM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(04-01-2017, 06:12 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: I know I might get flak for this here, but I highly suggest the book Day Bang  by Roosh. Despite the provocative title it's really good at breaking down encounters between the opposite sex as simply a conversation on a neutral topic. He teaches you to simply be non threatening and interested in something, whether it's a prop,the venue or just some other conversational piece.We all small talk with people all the time, girls are no different. Just the fact that you are actually some random guy talking to a woman outside is already proof enough to her that you're bolder than the average guy. Seriously this stuff is pretty good. I am now in a long term thing with a girl I met who just turned 21 and I'm 35! Just start by learning how to have a conversation. Take it easy on yourself too.

Why would any Catholic give flak about a book written by a guy who advocates for legalizing rape?

Honestly I know nothing about that man or what he thinks, I just know that the book I mention has some excellent ideas for man and going fear and talking to girls. I came across the book by accident and loved it. Whoever that guy is he doesn't condone rape in that book.
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#7
(04-02-2017, 07:26 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(04-02-2017, 02:57 AM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(04-01-2017, 06:12 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: I know I might get flak for this here, but I highly suggest the book Day Bang  by Roosh. Despite the provocative title it's really good at breaking down encounters between the opposite sex as simply a conversation on a neutral topic. He teaches you to simply be non threatening and interested in something, whether it's a prop,the venue or just some other conversational piece.We all small talk with people all the time, girls are no different. Just the fact that you are actually some random guy talking to a woman outside is already proof enough to her that you're bolder than the average guy. Seriously this stuff is pretty good. I am now in a long term thing with a girl I met who just turned 21 and I'm 35! Just start by learning how to have a conversation. Take it easy on yourself too.

Why would any Catholic give flak about a book written by a guy who advocates for legalizing rape?

Honestly I know nothing about that man or what he thinks, I just know that the book I mention has some excellent ideas for man and going fear and talking to girls. I came across the book by accident and loved it. Whoever that guy is he doesn't condone rape in that book.

Glad to hear it.  I was hoping that was the case.
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#8
Hey Arturo,

Don't feel bad at all that you experience nervousness. Sounds like you have made a lot of progress though.  That is alot to overcome.

This might get a little too "red-pill", but if so my apologies...

Time was, one could follow a fairly laid out formula of courtship that took a lot of anxiety out of the process.  Women tended to naturally respect men more than compared to today.  Being a disciplined, kind, smart gentleman who did well at school, work, and made a living and was decent looking would be more than enough to secure a slim, wholesome woman who would be happy to adopt your name and make a home and family with you.

But that's gone.  Being a handsome, kind man who can provide and make a good living is not enough anymore. Just being that is likely you to make an object of scorn or seen as "creepy."  Thanks Feminism. 

Now, women are encouraged to compete with men and they have less respect or deference for them in general.  They are self-sufficient and/or have the option of being subsidized by the Government.

Men are in a lot of ways now simply superfluous to them.  Therefore, women are now freer to date those top tiered Alpha men who stimulate them in a way that Beta nice guys do not.

This is called the Female Imperative, or Hypergamy. 

Women hold the upper hand and power in dating and they obviously like it that way and are not going to give that up voluntarily. They get to decide if anything is going to happen or a relationship is going to develop.  Having "Game" evens this power disparity up somewhat, although I don't really like the worldly trappings that go along with that term, and it is really just possessing the knowledge that most pre Victorian Era men knew about the nature of women before Feminist indoctrination.  As a man, why should you just have to settle for whoever doesn't reject you?  Can men not have any power of influence.  They should, and this is where "game" or making oneself attractive to a woman comes into play. 

Who has to take the lead and put themselves out there and risk overt rejection, humiliation and uncomfortability? 

Men.  Women will rarely if ever take this risk.  And what they think are obvious signs of interest are really not and actually are pretty ambiguous. 

Time was, it was easy for a man to lead a woman because she naturally was more feminine than today. He wasn't constantly doubting himself and his natural self confidence was in tact. The later 20th century and 21st century has wrecked that in most men.  Now youve got combative women testing you all throughout the process.  Us men are wracked with insecurities.  Men are constantly belittled while women are "empowered" by propaganda 24/7.  Their egos are through the roof.  What if I misstep and get blown out? What if I say the wrong flirty thing and a woman calls the police on me for harassment??

Who has the responsibility of initiating the approach, creating attraction, not being boring, planning and executing the logistics of a date, not destroying attraction by texting or saying the "wrong thing" etc.. , paying for drinks, dates, potentially spending large amounts of money over the years without any partner to show for it?

Men. 

Who often feels entitled to free meals and "entertainment" due to an outmoded date format that started in the early to mid 20th century?  Not men. You get my drift. 

Women have no idea how difficult it is for men in the dating world/market today where only men who are often cads with "game" (applied charisma) thrive and get to have options.

Making oneself physically attractive, being sweet and pleasant and having the less-pressure passive role in the dynamic is nothing compared to what a man has to do in order to secure a mate of his choice. 

Women will instantly become unattracted to a man she might otherwise have found attractive if she discovers he does not have any other options.  Women love men who other women love. 

A shy woman will eventually get picked up if she is halfway decent.  A shy man, on the other hand can be a virtuous gem, but will largely a suffer an involuntary celibate life if he can't get over his nature.

Being an attractive man is sort of counter intuitive.  If you pedestalize a woman she will not like you for it and she'll think you are a loser.  Don't ever listen to what a woman says but what she does and reacts to.  Everyone's mother and every girl says all they want is to be treated like a queen and given flowers etc. but in the real world that's a lie.  They'll reject you in a bad way if you do that sort of thing. 

Good beta males live in understandable anguish and frustration because their goodness is scorned while attractive young females can't throw themselves hard enough at thugs or jerkboys who treat them with contempt.  It is enough to make one weep. 

Because God designed men to be visually attracted to fertile, physically appealing young women that is all it really takes to get us interested, at least initially.  Now personality and character all come into play a little later when we are concerning wife and mother material of course. 

But it is women who mostly get to decide if anything is going to happen or not and unfortunately that means women generally have a lot more options than men today, unless those men display high status. 

Now what I have referred to is mostly to secular women but even Catholic women are influenced to some extent. Biology still commands them to seek out a high status dominant male who could take or leave them. If anyone disagrees, feel free to explain women's obsession with "Fifty Shades of Grey" type of romance novels where a Dominant man does what he pleases with a woman.  He doesn't ask permission, he exerts dominance.  This is the exact opposite of what hysterical feminists say they hate.  But they're just dishonest.

My advice would be to find the most pious Catholic woman you can find who interests you and not put too much pressure on yourself.

Ask open ended questions but definitely avoid any interview type of feel. Make playful observations and flirt some (innocently) and tease a little bit. This is actually kind of difficult for serious, pious Catholic men who are supernaturally focused and don't want to be too worldly.  You don't want to come off as too much of a friend so be your own man who does not seem like he is seeking validation from a woman.  Try not to make a first date too formal because apparently women feel too much pressure on these and it is likely not to be received well, surprisingly.  Get out of your own head and try not to be so self-conscious. Just focus on listening to her and pick up what she is throwing out and running with it.  Challenger her at times.

Showing too much interest is also usually a deathknell to your pursuit.  Have your conversations touch on her emotions and how she feels about things.  Nothing kills any budding romantic interest more than manly logic.  Let your motivation behind certain topics be to have her qualify herself and impress you, rather than trying to agree with her about everything and prove yourself to her.  Like I said, it is largely counter intuitive. 

Flip the script on her a little bit.  Girls are taught that they are the prize. They are the gems to be cherished.  (So what are men then....?)

I personally find a tension as a Catholic seeing oneself as "the prize" as it is against the virtue of humility, but alas women do not find men attractive who don't value themselves or put themselves first in a lot of ways.  But you don't want to come across as arrogant either. 

Just make sure you speak with confidence, even if you have to fake it until you make it for a while.  Make the interaction and asking out seem like its perfectly natural and not really a big deal.  If she goes with it hey great, if not hey all the best to you.  I know that can be hard though when you really want to make it work and have a big crush.  Try to see it as fun and exciting and a growth experience.  You will get better and better and more comfortable.
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#9
Good advice.
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#10
(04-03-2017, 01:07 PM)BC Wrote: Don't ever listen to what a woman says but what she does and reacts to.  Everyone's mother and every girl says all they want is to be treated like a queen and given flowers etc. but in the real world that's a lie.  They'll reject you in a bad way if you do that sort of thing. 
Can't argue with anything at all but speaking for us flower-loving women of the world, there are always exception to the rule though. My alpha top tiered thug "oh he's probably a bouncer at a strip club or a drug dealer or escaped from prison" husband buys me flowers twice a week and a substantial gift each week. The fact that he has "chosen to" treat me "like a queen" (cue Королева Вдохновения...) when other women want him is a big deal to me. If he had treated me like a jerk (and I mean real thug, none of this pick up artist "jerk" stuff) he would have been physically appealing but I'd have no desire whatsoever. This could be related to "what she reacts to", I guess.
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