Interesting Holistic Cures/Folk Remedies Website
#41
have you ever heard of a placebo?
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#42
argaddini Wrote:have you ever heard of a placebo?

ROFL! Anything natural that cures me and my family of various ailments is merely the "placebo effect".
 
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#43
argaddini Wrote:have you ever heard of a placebo?

Funny you should mention that. Funnier still is what gets classified as "snake oil," at least until a pharmaceutical company can figure out a way to make a profit.
 
For example, I can remember back when fish oil was routinely denounced by scientific journals. Eventually, the obvious benefits won out, and now there is a prescription available for it.
Costs a bloody fortune, too. [Image: fish.gif]
 
For the most part, I have had good results with alternative regimens. I always discuss my choices with my doctor, and he is always interested to hear how something has worked out for me or a family member. So far, the homeopathic alternatives we have tried worked better than the allopathic remedies. Especially for a UTI.
 
About ACV... I tried it and I can definitely tell a difference in my allergy/sinusitis stuff. It doesn't completely cure it, but neither does ceclor, primatene, amoxil, zyrtec, septra, flonase, benadryl, sudafed, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum. ACV is a lot cheaper and there are no side effects; two points in its favor.
 
Just because something is a home remedy doesn't mean it doesn't work. Neither is it possible for a charlatan to detract from the inherently good properties of a product by false claims. So, lucky us- we can enjoy our ACV salads. Please pass the olive oil. [Image: gimmefood.gif]
 
 
 
 
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#44
  Really!  Just because I am not shopping for smaller clothes doesn't mean the ACV is not good for me.  I can see that it has helped enourmously with allergies and headaches.  I am really glad to have read about it here.
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#45
The placebo effect is real. It is probably the major player in most “home cures” along with the body simply improving all on its own, allergens going out of season, etc. This is not to say that every home cure is the placebo effect. There are certainly useful home remedies. You can find them on the site I referenced before.

Many medicines are derived from plants. Plants contain many powerful chemicals in them, and this is why I referenced the herbal supplement site. It is a good one that rigorously tests the products it reviews and separates the quackery from useful, inexpensive, and practical remedies. Pharmaceutical drugs are almost always going to be more effective than an herbal remedy because they are either highly concentrated doses of whatever is good in the plant or they are synthetically derived chemicals that are extremely potent.

It is utter nonsense that there are no “side effects” to natural remedies. If the remedy is doing anything at all there MUST BE A SIDE EFFECT. It is a basic principle of physiology. If a substance is manipulating a bodily mechanism to effect a certain symptom (reducing allergies in the case of ACV) then whatever mechanism it is manipulating almost certainly will have another effect since everything in the body is connected. Some side effects are milder than others. Usually the more potent the medicinal substance, the more pronounced the side effect. This is why herbal remedies have such mild side effects—they are simply not as potent or concentrated as pharmaceutical medicines.

It is certainly true that many herbal substances are extremely powerful. I see them every day I go to work. Cocaine is an example of a potent herbal substance. But crack is stronger (because of unnatural chemical manipulation)! LSD is extraordinarily potent. So potent that the gas chromatograph that we use cannot detect a typical dosage in the blood stream because it is so minute. We have a highly sensitive machine with special detectors dedicated to LSD detection.

There is some evidence that ACV may not be one of those useful, inexpensive, and practical remedies. I demonstrated this above. Fish oil may be another story. Olive oil and garlic are certainly good for you! Also, I would like to see the evidence of the prestigious journals saying fish oil is bad for you (and don’t reference something from 1920 like Catholicmilkman). It is possible that they did say it was bad. They are not infallible, but it usually is not the habit of good journals to issue blanket statements like that. They are typically more nuanced and intelligent. The leave it to the quacks to issue blanket statements like ACV will cure "arthritis, prostate problems, multiple sclerosis, and high cholesterol levels." Any substance that could do such a thing would instantly be so coveted that we would hear it constantly on the news.

This brings up another interesting point. There is not only a taint of quackery in many of these home remedy types, but also a dose of Gnosticism. They talk about how they have secret potions and remedies that nobody has known about except some obscure traditional apothecary that has carefully preserved the medicine. When you ask for references and experimental data they call you a member of the evil conspiracy! I think the parallels to theological Gnosticism, which talks about Jesus’ secret baby with Mary Magdalene and how it was secretly preserved by secret societies but covered up by the conspiratorial Church, is remarkable.
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#46
argaddini Wrote:The placebo effect is real. It is probably the major player in most “home cures” along with the body simply improving all on its own, allergens going out of season, etc.
But you are not qualified to decide if my success was due to the placebo effect.

Quote:Pharmaceutical drugs are almost always going to be more effective than an herbal remedy because they are either highly concentrated doses of whatever is good in the plant or they are synthetically derived chemicals that are extremely potent.
 
This is not necessarily true. Just as some natural remedies may work for some and not for others, the same is true for pharma drugs. That's why there are all kinds of different drugs to treat the same illness.

Quote:It is utter nonsense that there are no “side effects” to natural remedies. If the remedy is doing anything at all there MUST BE A SIDE EFFECT. It is a basic principle of physiology. If a substance is manipulating a bodily mechanism to effect a certain symptom (reducing allergies in the case of ACV) then whatever mechanism it is manipulating almost certainly will have another effect since everything in the body is connected. Some side effects are milder than others. Usually the more potent the medicinal substance, the more pronounced the side effect. This is why herbal remedies have such mild side effects—they are simply not as potent or concentrated as pharmaceutical medicines.
 
When I am referring to side effects, I mean potentially dangerous side effects. There is a difference between the side effects of of ACV and the side effects of, for instance, Allegra, a popular allergy drug:
 
Colds or flu, coughing, drowsiness, fatigue, fever, headache, indigestion, menstrual problems, nausea, pain including back or ear pain, abdominal pain, agitation, anxiety, back pain, dizziness, dry mouth, headache, heart palpitations, indigestion, insomnia, nausea, nervousness, respiratory tract infection, throat irritation.
I have noticed more and more that the side effects of nearly all pharma drugs can be worse than the illness it's being taken for - sometimes even life-threatening. That's not to say that all natural medicines are worry-free (Lobelia, which is very good for the lungs, has to be taken very carefully), but the harmful side effects are not nearly as prevalent in natural herbs as they are in pharma drugs.
Quote:It is certainly true that many herbal substances are extremely powerful. I see them every day I go to work. Cocaine is an example of a potent herbal substance. But crack is stronger (because of unnatural chemical manipulation)! LSD is extraordinarily potent. So potent that the gas chromatograph that we use cannot detect a typical dosage in the blood stream because it is so minute. We have a highly sensitive machine with special detectors dedicated to LSD detection.
 
But we aren't talking about illegal drugs here. We are talking about natural health remedies.

Quote:There is some evidence that ACV may not be one of those useful, inexpensive, and practical remedies. I demonstrated this above.
 
And there is evidence to the contrary as well. it has proven itself very useful for me - useful, I might add, where doctors failed.
 
Quote: Fish oil may be another story. Olive oil and garlic are certainly good for you! Also, I would like to see the evidence of the prestigious journals saying fish oil is bad for you (and don’t reference something from 1920 like Catholicmilkman).
 
Tell me, what time frames are we allowed to pull information from. Is there a decade cut-off? The 70's? Perhaps the 80's are as far back as we are allowed to go? Tell us your time-frame information comfort zone, please.
 
Quote: The leave it to the quacks to issue blanket statements like ACV will cure "arthritis, prostate problems, multiple sclerosis, and high cholesterol levels." Any substance that could do such a thing would instantly be so coveted that we would hear it constantly on the news.
 
If there was anything like that, the last place it would hit would be the mainstream news (unless Big Pharma was making money off it). You would be more likely to hear it from "quacks" first. Then prestigious medical professionals would emphatically denounce it, until one day some scientist "discovers" its healing properties, and the Pfizer Drug Co. hastens to get a patent on a drug made from it.  
 

Quote:This brings up another interesting point. There is not only a taint of quackery in many of these home remedy types, but also a dose of Gnosticism. They talk about how they have secret potions and remedies that nobody has known about except some obscure traditional apothecary that has carefully preserved the medicine. When you ask for references and experimental data they call you a member of the evil conspiracy! I think the parallels to theological Gnosticism, which talks about Jesus’ secret baby with Mary Magdalene and how it was secretly preserved by secret societies but covered up by the conspiratorial Church, is remarkable.
 
This is really too much. What's so sad about it is the fact that down through the centuries, natural remedies were the only means of healing. Now you can barely talk about it without being labeled a quack or worse. The benefits of of ACV, for example, go as far back as Hippocrates, who used it to treat his patients. Blessed Hildegard von Bingen wrote extensively on the healing properties of herbs. St. Fiacre was skilled in the art of healing herbs.
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#47
Human beings have similar, but not the same, physiology. Drugs usually act in the same way on all people and only need to be varied in their dosage (according to size, age, etc). Sometimes, differences between people matter. Sex, age, etc. Sometimes there are indeed odd differences and some people respond better than others to certain drugs and treatments. This holds true for pharma and herbal drugs. But this does not change the fact that pharma drugs are usually more potent and always more pure.

Dangerous side effects? So what makes them dangerous? A matter of kind or degree? Like I said already, the reason why herbal remedies have fewer side effects are because they are less concentrated and potent. The few extremely strong herbal drugs (LSD [illegal], Cocaine [illegal], Digitalis [legal], Morphine [legal]) are examples of herbal drugs with grave side effects. Caffeine for example is a weak herbal drug with very mild side effects.

The illegality of a substance has nothing to do if it works or not, and your argument is a non sequiter. Our culture finds opium (herbal) to be illegal in the present day. It didn’t 150 years ago. Marijuana (herbal) is smoked freely in India, but not here. You wont find any alcohol (herbal) in Mecca, but you find loads in Milwaukee. Ruphanol (pharmaceutical) is illegal in the US because some men can stop slipping into women’s drinks, but it is legal in France where the men have the decency to seduce the women. All these drugs act the same way in the body no matter where they are from or were the people live.

A reasonable time to stay in front of would be WWII probably. But even that is getting pretty old. Some sciences were very advanced at that time (physics and chemistry) and others were more sluggish (biology and pharmacology). Almost all dugs until the last 30 years were “discovered” accidentally. An example would be penicillin. Lately, drug companies, which invest billions in research (something Quacks cannot and will not ever do), have actually been able to develop fairly original drugs based on real scientific discoveries (an example would be a SSRI).
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#48
Also, if I (or you really) truly believe the outrageous claims that were made by those quacks about ACV, then I would be building distilling colums in my back yard and taking and taking out loans to buy apple futures.

Let me illuminate. Penis pills have been peddled for at least a century (but probably for a longer time). None of them worked. Nobody cared. Then viagra came along. Eveybody knows about it and everybody knows it works. Why, because it does. If any of the quack pills that came before it worked then we would all know about it too. We wouldn't need phizer to take out a patent or anything like that. It's not a conspiriacy. It's reality!
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#49
*sigh* I just had a post get eaten up by the previewer and I am out of free time this morning. 
I will try again later.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#50
argaddini Wrote:Also, if I (or you really) truly believe the outrageous claims that were made by those quacks about ACV, then I would be building distilling colums in my back yard and taking and taking out loans to buy apple futures.

Quackery is in the eye of the beholder.

argaddini Wrote:Let me illuminate. Penis pills have been peddled for at least a century (but probably for a longer time). None of them worked. Nobody cared. Then viagra came along. Eveybody knows about it and everybody knows it works. Why, because it does. If any of the quack pills that came before it worked then we would all know about it too. We wouldn't need phizer to take out a patent or anything like that. It's not a conspiriacy. It's reality!

 
The reality is that viagra has serious and life threatening complications associated with its use. It also had an enormous mass media marketing campaign- the likes of which are only fairly recent, so of course previous pills cannot compare by popularity. Also, I think that the "penis pills" as you call them are meant for size enhancement, not ED. Two different things.
 
Anyway, a quick look at the ingredients and precautions associated with each type of product show that the "quack" enhancement drug ingredients are innocuous doses of various vitamins, minerals, and herbs that are safe to use as directed. The prescription drugs for ED carry the risks of blindness, dangerous drop in blood pressure, and priapism that can result in permanent damage, to name but a few.
 
Guess which drug looks like quackery to me. Hint: it's the one that can kill you.
 
 
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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