Why no modern English trad Bible translation?
#81
(03-08-2021, 01:07 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 12:55 PM)J Michael Wrote: This may be well outside the scope of this thread, but your last sentence begs, for me, this question:  What is it in the KJV (and by extension, the NKJV?) that is heretical that is not in the DR?  I honestly don't know and ask purely out of my ignorance--not trying to troll or argue.  Also, how do we know that it "was written to promote heresy"?  

Thanks!!

This page lists a whole bunch of attacks on the Blessed Virgin, the priesthood, hell, etc.  I'm sure there's more.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/scri...ersion.htm
Thanks!

I did notice in my Orthodox Study Bible (Septuagint and NKJV) that some of the verses mentioned in your link have footnotes that offer alternate translations that appear to fit with the "should be" this person lists.

(Not particularly relevant to the discussion but whoever put that page together either doesn't speak/write English as his first language or is most sorely in need of some thorough editing and proof-reading.  Or both!  Oy!)
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#82
(03-08-2021, 11:53 AM)Paul Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 11:23 AM)austenbosten Wrote: But here's the thing.  The Church no longer "forbids" certain books from being read, it seems the Church is more concerned not that one reads wrong material, but that they shouldn't get the wrong ideas presented in it.

It does, even if there's no longer a particular list. The Index retains its moral force, since falsehood is against the natural law, and there's a very real danger of Catholics reading Protestant Bibles and wrongly interpreting them, or questioning the faith ("full of grace" and "a virgin shall conceive" are a couple examples concerning our Lady; there's also 'elders' vs 'priests' in some of the Epistles, and many more). Maybe it's not a sin for someone who knows his faith to look up a passage in the KJV or another version to see how the Protestants translate it, but as a version for general Scripture reading, Catholics shouldn't be encouraged to read non-approved versions. The Church gave us the Bible, not the other way around, and it's the Church, not Scripture, which is 'the pillar and ground of the truth'. The KJV might be good literature, but there's nothing beautiful about heresy, and the KJV was written to promote heresy.

From the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

Notification regarding the abolition of the Index of books

... this Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, after having asked the Holy Father, announces that the Index remains morally binding, in light of the demands of natural law, in so far as it admonishes the conscience of Christians to be on guard for those writings that can endanger faith and morals.

Given in Rome from the Holy Office, June 14, 1966.

+ Cardinal A. Ottaviani
Pro-Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
+ P. Parente
Secretary
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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#83
(03-08-2021, 04:42 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 11:53 AM)Paul Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 11:23 AM)austenbosten Wrote: But here's the thing.  The Church no longer "forbids" certain books from being read, it seems the Church is more concerned not that one reads wrong material, but that they shouldn't get the wrong ideas presented in it.

It does, even if there's no longer a particular list. The Index retains its moral force, since falsehood is against the natural law, and there's a very real danger of Catholics reading Protestant Bibles and wrongly interpreting them, or questioning the faith ("full of grace" and "a virgin shall conceive" are a couple examples concerning our Lady; there's also 'elders' vs 'priests' in some of the Epistles, and many more). Maybe it's not a sin for someone who knows his faith to look up a passage in the KJV or another version to see how the Protestants translate it, but as a version for general Scripture reading, Catholics shouldn't be encouraged to read non-approved versions. The Church gave us the Bible, not the other way around, and it's the Church, not Scripture, which is 'the pillar and ground of the truth'. The KJV might be good literature, but there's nothing beautiful about heresy, and the KJV was written to promote heresy.

From the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

Notification regarding the abolition of the Index of books

... this Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, after having asked the Holy Father, announces that the Index remains morally binding, in light of the demands of natural law, in so far as it admonishes the conscience of Christians to be on guard for those writings that can endanger faith and morals.

Given in Rome from the Holy Office, June 14, 1966.

+ Cardinal A. Ottaviani
Pro-Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
+ P. Parente
Secretary

Let's finish what the letter said

"...But, at the same time, it no longer has the force of ecclesiastical law with the attached censure.

In this matter, the Church trusts in the mature conscience of the faithful, and especially the authors, the Catholic publishers, and those concerned with the education of the youth. The Church places its most firm hope in the vigilant care of the individual Ordinaries and of the Episcopal Conferences, who have both the right and the duty to examine and also to prevent the publication of harmful books and, when it may be the case, to rebuke the authors and to admonish them.

The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, according to the spirit of the Apostolic Letter Integrae Servandae and the Decrees of the Second Vatican Council, places itself at the full disposition of the Ordinaries, in so far as necessary, to assist their diligence in evaluating published works, and in promoting a healthy culture in opposition to an insidious one, with the close collaboration of the Institutes and the ecclesiastical Universities.

If, however, doctrines and opinions publicly emerge that are contrary to the principles of the faith and morals, and their authors do not correct these errors after being benevolently invited to do so, the Holy See will use its right and duty to issue reprimands about these writings, even publicly, to provide for the good of souls with appropriate firmness.

Therefore, appropriate provisions are to be made to notify the faithful about the judgment of the Church on published works."


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Again, I'm not encouraging people dump their DRBs to pick up KJV. I'm just saying I'm not sinning if I prefer to read say the Shepherd's Psalm (23) in the KJV as opposed to an official Catholic translation.
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#84
We obviously have radical differences of opinion on what 'morally binding' means.
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#85
(03-08-2021, 07:03 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: We obviously have radical differences of opinion on what 'morally binding' means.

Well the letter does explain what they mean by "morally binding"

"in so far as it admonishes the conscience of Christians to be on guard for those writings that can endanger faith and morals."

Notice it says "on guard" it doesn't say that we are under the pain of sin to avoid them, but we are to be "on guard" knowing they can endanger faith and morals.

So a Catholic can read the works of Nietsche, provided that they are "on guard" that it contains morally harmful materials. The same applies to the KJV. Whereas in the past one was never permitted for an average layman to read such prohibited works.

Also in the letter

"The Church places its most firm hope in the vigilant care of the individual Ordinaries and of the Episcopal Conferences, who have both the right and the duty to examine and also to prevent the publication of harmful books and, when it may be the case, to rebuke the authors and to admonish them."

It speaks of publication and distribution. If I read the KJV in my spare time, then I'm not necessarily doing wrong, but if I was to start handing them out or printing them, then I would be going against the letter by engaging in the publication or distribution of a condemned work. Again, I'm not saying that one should replace a Catholic Bible with a KJV, only that one doesn't necessarily sin if they read the KJV because they prefer the prose. So long as they know it's not a Catholic Bible and don't read it as such.

But one can still read the KJV of Psalm 23 and still be faithful since there is no real deviation from the message in that particular Psalm. I would also argue reading Genesis 3:15 is not sinful if the Catholic recognizes that "...it shall bruise thy head" refers to the woman mentioned in the same verse earlier and thus "It" refers to She, as in Our Lady. Again this requires an already formed Catholic conscience that means the KJV is not really suited to uninformed Catholics, hence why Catholics should be "on guard" towards any book without a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.
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#86
OK. I still don't buy it, but we're obviously not going to change each other's minds.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
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My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#87
(03-08-2021, 08:09 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: OK. I still don't buy it, but we're obviously not going to change each other's minds.

And this is why I constantly bitch about Vatican 2 and aggrionamento and the entire state the Church is in.
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#88
Honestly, I can't see why it would be a sin to just read a psalm or two. But I don't think it should be one's regular spiritual reading.
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#89
(03-08-2021, 08:15 PM)Filiolus Wrote: Honestly, I can't see why it would be a sin to just read a psalm or two. But I don't think it should be one's regular spiritual reading.

That's how it starts.  Just a psalm or two at a party.  Then, you're look up some verses at home on a Friday night, out of curiosity.  You tell yourself you can quit at any time.  But that never works.  And before you know it, you can't stop, and you're a protestant.
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#90
(03-08-2021, 08:32 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(03-08-2021, 08:15 PM)Filiolus Wrote: Honestly, I can't see why it would be a sin to just read a psalm or two. But I don't think it should be one's regular spiritual reading.

That's how it starts.  Just a psalm or two at a party.  Then, you're look up some verses at home on a Friday night, out of curiosity.  You tell yourself you can quit at any time.  But that never works.  And before you know it, you can't stop, and you're a protestant.

lol
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