For Traditionalists, the Insults Will Continue Until Morale Improves (1P5)
#1
Between the article itself and the comments, I find the whole situation sad. I think part of the problem is this "divide and conquer" scenario we're in.

"Traditional Catholic? Great. FSSP? Oh no, you've joined the compromised sellouts who pander to Vatican II."

"Traditional Catholic? Great. Can't attend the TLM because it's too far away, not a good option for your [possibly large] family, etc? Oh. Too bad. You're a 'Novus Ordite' [valid Mass given by the Church aside]/'NO Catholic.' You aren't really a Traditionalist."

"EWTN? They're just Neo-Catholics."

etc, etc, etc.

I face this myself because I attend the OF out of necessity, even though I'd be thrilled to attend a TLM every Sunday, and I would still be sorted into the 'Neo-Catholic'/'just not Traditional enough' category by some. We're all in this together. Can we stop the finger-pointing and hair-splitting and just be the best Catholics we can?

"The standard complaint against traditionalists, that we are demanding and obnoxious, has surfaced yet again in the Catholic blogosphere. This time it comes to us courtesy of the site Unam, Sanctam, Catholicam (a blog which I appreciate and enjoy reading on occasion).

In his most recent post, however, Boniface (the author’s pseudonym) addresses the perceived problem of rude & obnoxious Trads and the diocesan priests whose lives they apparently make a living hell. Two specific priests are (anonymously) profiled: one who was in seminary when Summorum Pontificum was issued by Pope Benedict, the other a pastor who was already learning the Traditional Latin Mass in 2007 when Benedict released his landmark motu proprio."

More here:

http://www.onepeterfive.com/traditionali...-improves/
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#2
Quote:Between the article itself and the comments, I find the whole situation sad. I think part of the problem is this "divide and conquer" scenario we're in.

"Traditional Catholic? Great. FSSP? Oh no, you've joined the compromised sellouts who pander to Vatican II."

"Traditional Catholic? Great. Can't attend the TLM because it's too far away, not a good option for your [possibly large] family, etc? Oh. Too bad. You're a 'Novus Ordite' [valid Mass given by the Church aside]/'NO Catholic.' You aren't really a Traditionalist."

"EWTN? They're just Neo-Catholics."

etc, etc, etc.

I face this myself because I attend the OF out of necessity, even though I'd be thrilled to attend a TLM every Sunday, and I would still be sorted into the 'Neo-Catholic'/'just not Traditional enough' category by some. We're all in this together. Can we stop the finger-pointing and hair-splitting and just be the best Catholics we can?

I've come to the conclusion that many such Catholics give into a vice of excessive zealousness; that is, zeal for a certain thing that ends up replacing love of God and neighbor in some fashion.  In the present case, it's "over-zealousness" for the TLM and other traditional practices.

We definitely need to work to restore the TLM, the Divine Office, etc. back to their proper places, but we can't hope to do that if we are constantly withholding charity from people just because they haven't grasped the scope of the crisis as many of us have (and I include myself in this "we" because I've done this far too often).
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#3
I find the divide between trads to be ridiculous. Whether you go to diocesan, FSSP, ICKSP,  SSPX, some sede group, or are even forced to attend the NO, we're all looking to accomplish the same goal. We all may understand the current situation of the Church a bit differently, but we all want to see the Catholic Church restored to tradition. Maybe some people see that restoration playing out somewhat differently than others, but at the end of the day the goal is about the same no matter which group you're a part of. These divisions are just plain stupidity. Anyone who acts like a jerk to any Catholic or priest who isn't a trad is just working against the cause through their nonsense and is committing a sin at that.

In terms of the article, there's a point to be made about the fact that many people travel quite far to get to TLMs. For some people it's local, others it's an hour or even hours to get to Mass. People who live far away are going to be less likely to be involved in a parish that they can only realistically visit once per week. In any case, having your TLM at a decent time can also help with that since you'll get more locals and the people who have to travel aren't going to necessarily need to have to rush home if they live far away since it's now only 10:00 or 12:00 or whatever.  I know that where I'm originally from the two closest places that do TLM (within 30 minutes) only do it at 3pm. For holidays I get stuck going to NO because of the fact that any time in the afternoon is horrible when you're expecting to get together with your family. This can even be an issue on any Sunday in general for people. If Mass starts at 3, a sung mass will be done by 4:30, half an hour drive and you're home by 5:00 when everyone is coming over for dinner. What time is there to stay afterward? This is the type of stuff that trads are forced to deal with.
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#4
It really takes a potential convert so much fortitude to make the effort to become a Catholic today.  Those who come from Catholic families think it's bad that they are divided over traditionalist issues, but they should consider those poor people who come from Protestant families who come to believe the R.C.C. is true...... Only one who has traveled down that road can realize what that entails.

Once one goes down the rabbit hole that is post Vatican II Catholicism, it gets very real. Loneliness and isolation, confusion, temptations to despair abound.  There is no peace that could be had before the 1960's, where one could take solace that no matter what they left behind, they were firmly and surely in Christ's Church and were united in one Faith.  Now all one has is unease. There is hardly any prelate one can be obedient to, as they almost all are compromising the Faith in someway. My God, to just have lived and died before 1958...

Am I really going to a valid mass?  If it is, is it nevertheless sacrilegious and should I be an accomplice to it?  Is every priest I go to validly ordained?  Is this the Great Apostasy and the true Catholic Church been reduced to a remnant and replaced with a counterfeit; the Apostles deserting Christ at the Cross again during the Mystical Passion of His Body, the Church? Am I just wasting my time, not having certitude of what my ecclesiastical status is? Am I part of a breakaway schismatic group (SSPX,etc.)?  Am I validly married if my marriage was witness by a priest with jurisdiction or am I horrifyingly living in adultery?  Have I been victim of a fraudulent annulment and "remarried?" Etc. Etc.

The Say-day-vacationists assert everyone who does not take their position are probably not Catholic and in a false Church.  The FSSP say the SSPX is schismatic.  The SSPX say the FSSP are compromisers and masses not be attended. Those small number who follow Cardinal Siri's successor say everyone else is not in the Church.  The vast number of Novus Ordo goers dont have a blessed clue about what's going on or really care. 

I know some don't have those concerns, but as one who has very much looked into what has transpired, I certainly do.  It's demoralizing

The Hierarchy has done this. Or the "Hierarchy," depending on who you ask.  We are not a lay-driven Church, as Christ gave His Charge to the Apostles and their successors to spread the Gospel and lead the Church, not laymen.  We can't "save" the Church.  (Yes we as laymen should defend the Faith when put into the opportunity to do so and be witnesses for Christ. )  This is contrary to what "New Springtime" Novus Ordo enthusiasts assert, now after having welcomed a program that turned off real men from wanting to become N.O. presbyters who preside over the "community." 

Now that they have successfully decimated the Church, they have the audacity to say that we laymen are "co-responsible" for the Church.  Just sick. 
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#5
and yet at the end of the day, everyone thinks they're right, but no one knows who's right. Goes for a lot of things in life. Only thing we can do is have faith and let God sort it out. Fighting over whether FSSP, SSPX, Sede, or even the Orthodox or whatever else are right is just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere. It accomplishes nothing since none of us will ever get the answer until either we die, God intervenes and makes everything right again or God gives us the answer. Either way, I don't see myself as having a way of changing the situation of the Church, none of us here really do. Maybe we can convince some people here and there and maybe one of those people will end up being a great saint who will do a lot to change things. Either way, short of some great big divine intervention, the answer will come from the clergy as it always has. If one truly wants to fight this battle, they should become a priest or religious and do it from within.
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#6
(05-03-2017, 11:00 AM)GangGreen Wrote: and yet at the end of the day, everyone thinks they're right, but no one knows who's right. Goes for a lot of things in life. Only thing we can do is have faith and let God sort it out. Fighting over whether FSSP, SSPX, Sede, or even the Orthodox or whatever else are right is just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere. It accomplishes nothing since none of us will ever get the answer until either we die, God intervenes and makes everything right again or God gives us the answer. Either way, I don't see myself as having a way of changing the situation of the Church, none of us here really do. Maybe we can convince some people here and there and maybe one of those people will end up being a great saint who will do a lot to change things. Either way, short of some great big divine intervention, the answer will come from the clergy as it always has. If one truly wants to fight this battle, they should become a priest or religious and do it from within.

How true!  Some positions seem more logical than others but in the end we are all doing the best we can with the information we have, or own tendencies and our own circumstances. I don't necessarily think there is any way this side of eternity we can ever prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who is right and who is wrong in terms of those groups you mentioned.  I've been happiest when I simply try to stick to a certain prayer regimen and do my best. 
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#7
(05-03-2017, 10:46 AM)BC Wrote: Once one goes down the rabbit hole that is post Vatican II Catholicism, it gets very real. Loneliness and isolation, confusion, temptations to despair abound.

This. ^^^^

There are so, so, so many days I wish I had taken the blue pill instead. I was happy once upon a time. Now all I am in frustrated.
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#8
I had a tremendous dry period a couple of years ago where I fulfilled my duties, but the damage done to the Church's human element was especially upsetting to my soul. I mean, it's still upsetting, but now I've found a place of rest. It's crucial to keep Our Lord at the center of your life and love Him for Himself. When St. Thomas Aquinas was nearing the end of his earthly life, Our Lord appeared to him and said, "You have written well of me, Thomas. What would you like from me?" He said, "Nothing. I did it all for you, my Lord." That has to be our response. He'll provide for all of our needs.

My advice:

- Be very sparing when it comes to the comboxes you read. It can very quickly spiral out of control, and all it takes is one, "The Vatican II sect is false" or "Only the SSPX has preserved Tradition" to make it implode. Avoid YouTube comments altogether; they're usually poisonous regardless of the video.

- If you're like me and go to a very "mixed bag" OF Mass for your obligation, stick to this during the rest of the week: http://www.livemass.org/LiveMass/home.html

- Pray, pray, pray.
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#9
(05-03-2017, 04:40 PM)PrairieMom Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 10:46 AM)BC Wrote: Once one goes down the rabbit hole that is post Vatican II Catholicism, it gets very real. Loneliness and isolation, confusion, temptations to despair abound.

This. ^^^^

There are so, so, so many days I wish I had taken the blue pill instead. I was happy once upon a time. Now all I am in frustrated.

Your tagline:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away." The Apocalypse 21:1-4

is one I try to remember. True friends of the cross know suffering in this life. To live in this seeming Passion of the Church is particularly anguishing that Catholics of yesteryear were not made to see.

Let us remember to pray for each other.
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#10
(05-03-2017, 07:52 PM)BC Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 04:40 PM)PrairieMom Wrote:
(05-03-2017, 10:46 AM)BC Wrote: Once one goes down the rabbit hole that is post Vatican II Catholicism, it gets very real. Loneliness and isolation, confusion, temptations to despair abound.

This. ^^^^

There are so, so, so many days I wish I had taken the blue pill instead. I was happy once upon a time. Now all I am in frustrated.

Your tagline:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away." The Apocalypse 21:1-4

is one I try to remember. True friends of the cross know suffering in this life. To live in this seeming Passion of the Church is particularly anguishing that Catholics of yesteryear were not made to see.

Let us remember to pray for each other.

Well stated, sir.
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