BREAKING : Cardinal Burke calls for Consecration of Russia to IHOM
#11
(05-20-2017, 02:46 AM)In His Love Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 02:42 AM)Pacman Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 02:33 AM)In His Love Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 01:51 AM)Pacman Wrote: I never really understood those Fatima devotees who believe OBL was talking about Russia's conversion from 'schismatic' Orthodoxy, and not her conversion of Godless Bolshevism which was established by the Synagogue of Satan that Our Lord warned us about. These days Metropolitan Kyrill sounds more Catholic than the Pope.
As of 1054, Orthodoxy is schismatic. Why the quotation marks?

Yeah, that's what it is..
I'm confused and can't tell if you're being sarcastic or something. The quotation marks just made the post look strange.

I apologise, I was being facetious. It's just that it really raises my hackles when you accuse the Orthodox of schism when the current Catholic Church is so disconnected from the faith of our forefathers that it is a sad joke. Catholic neo-cons tolerate everyone except those who are defending orthodoxy. The Conservative N.O. Church is so happy to mingle with Protestants and what have you, but when it comes to the Eastern Orthodox they will condemn them as 'schismatics'. And they have a right to be scared because the Orthodox are the one people who know their arguments backwards and forwards and can tear them apart. The neo-con Catholics are clinging on to an argument from authority at the expense of orthodoxy. The Church must have both authority and orthodoxy working for her at the same time. The one cannot live without the other.

I am beginning to feel like the Catholic Church has replaced a living relationship with God with this mechanical ping-pong game of sin and confession thanks to the reforms of Pope Gregory VII in the 11th century. I see now what the Orthodox mean when they decry this Catholic system of created grace, that God handed St Peter a bank vault full of grace and it just gets traded around like stuff in an antiques' market. If I am in mortal sin I am totally cut off from God, and my only way back to God is through a wizard appointed by a bishop who casts some magic spell to give me a new piece of the action. I am a son of God and this loving relationship cannot be reduced to a mindless mechanism of sin and confession. It is a living relationship. The Gregorian Reforms codified the heresies of Legalism and Created Grace which has benighted Western Christendom since the Middle Ages and it led to Protestantism, which led to Liberalism, which led to the errors of Socialism and Marxism. Only Eastern Orthodoxy has maintained the true faith of our ancestors throughout the ages. I will never again repeat the filioque in public.

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#12
(05-20-2017, 04:40 AM)Pacman Wrote: Only Eastern Orthodoxy has maintained the true faith of our ancestors throughout the ages. I will never again repeat the filioque in public.
I'm sorry to hear that you reject God-given dogma.
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#13
(05-20-2017, 04:53 AM)In His Love Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 04:40 AM)Pacman Wrote: Only Eastern Orthodoxy has maintained the true faith of our ancestors throughout the ages. I will never again repeat the filioque in public.
I'm sorry to hear that you reject God-given dogma.

It sounds so obvious! Of course! Well, in case you can't tell, I'll be off to Divine Liturgy this Sunday. Enjoy your Carolingian heresy!
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#14
(05-20-2017, 05:20 AM)Pacman Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 04:53 AM)In His Love Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 04:40 AM)Pacman Wrote: Only Eastern Orthodoxy has maintained the true faith of our ancestors throughout the ages. I will never again repeat the filioque in public.
I'm sorry to hear that you reject God-given dogma.

It sounds so obvious! Of course! Well, in case you can't tell, I'll be off to Divine Liturgy this Sunday. Enjoy your Carolingian heresy!
My what?  ???

Reciting the dogmatically defined Filioque is not heresy.

"Hilary of Poitiers

"Concerning the Holy Spirit . . . it is not necessary to speak of him who must be acknowledged, who is from the Father and the Son, his sources" (The Trinity 2:29 [A.D. 357]). "

"Epiphanius of Salamis

"The Father always existed and the Son always existed, and the Spirit breathes from the Father and the Son" (The Man Well-Anchored 75 [A.D. 374])."

"Ambrose of Milan
...
The Holy Spirit, when he proceeds from the Father and the Son, does not separate himself from the Father and does not separate himself from the Son" (ibid., 1:2:120)."

"The Athanasian Creed

"[W]e venerate one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in oneness. . . . The Father was not made nor created nor begotten by anyone. The Son is from the Father alone, not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding" (Athanasian Creed [A.D. 400])."

"Augustine
...
"[The one] from whom principally the Holy Spirit proceeds is called God the Father. I have added the term ‘principally’ because the Holy Spirit is found to proceed also from the Son" (ibid., 15:17:29). "

https://www.catholic.com/tract/filioque

I hope you renounce your error someday.
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#15
We're going to do one of these again are we? Well, okay.
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#16
The filfioque did not exist in the original Nicene Creed defined by that council’s canons. No one disputes that the true, historical Nicene Creed omitted the filioque for centuries. And the canons of the Council of Ephesus anathematizes anybody who altars the Nicene Creed.

Pope Leo III did not use the filioque in the Roman mass until he was compelled to for political reasons by German Emperor Henry II in 1014 (thus I called it a “Carolingian heresy”).

You can quote me Augustine and Aquinas all day. I don’t accept everything they say is dogma.
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#17
(05-20-2017, 06:14 AM)Pacman Wrote: You can quote me Augustine and Aquinas all day. I don’t accept everything they say is dogma.
Not everything they say is dogma, but when it involves something like the Filioque, that is dogma, and you are endangering your soul.

"A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid" - Titus 3:10
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#18
(05-20-2017, 06:47 AM)In His Love Wrote:
(05-20-2017, 06:14 AM)Pacman Wrote: You can quote me Augustine and Aquinas all day. I don’t accept everything they say is dogma.
Not everything they say is dogma, but when it involves something like the Filioque, that is dogma, and you are endangering your soul.

"A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid" - Titus 3:10

You can find me quotes from early Latins which support the Filioque. I can find you quotes from similar sources which do not support it. The final say on a matter of theological dispute is decided by the canons of an Ecumenical Council. The canons of the Council of Ephesus anathematizes anyone who alters the words of the Nicene Creed. The Bishops of Rome began adding the filioque into the Creed in the 11th century due to pressure from the Frankish potentates of the age. They did not have the authority to do this. The only way the filioque could have been licitly added was by convening a new Ecumenical Council to approve it. Instead they just sought of began sneaking it in there because it was popular with western Christians.
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#19
                                            Bishop Richard Williamson believes  that the conversion of Russia will be to Eastern Rite Catholicism. Kinda makes sense.
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#20
(05-20-2017, 07:31 AM)Eric F Wrote:                                             Bishop Richard Williamson believes  that the conversion of Russia will be to Eastern Rite Catholicism. Kinda makes sense.

Do Uniate Eastern Catholic Churches even have a catechism?
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