It would seem that sacrilegious communions hasten death
#1
It would seem to make sense that God will only accept a limited amount of insults before He takes somebody's opportunity to continue. I know that it is said that God will only give the opportunity for repentance to a certain amount of mortal sins, but it would seem this is especially true of sins that directly insult God such as a sacrilegious communion. If somebody consistently takes communion while in mortal sin it would seem that is an easy way to have God cease to give them opportunities for repentance and to take them from this life.
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#2
This would be perfectly logical if God was more concerned about his honor than repentance of sinners.  However, I don't think the parable of the Prodigal Son matches up with a god that only tolerates a certain number of mortal sins.
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#3
(07-06-2017, 10:38 PM)Melkite Wrote: This would be perfectly logical if God was more concerned about his honor than repentance of sinners.  However, I don't think the parable of the Prodigal Son matches up with a god that only tolerates a certain number of mortal sins.

God will not be mocked.
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#4
(07-06-2017, 10:30 PM)GoodKingWenceslas Wrote: It would seem to make sense that God will only accept a limited amount of insults before He takes somebody's opportunity to continue. I know that it is said that God will only give the opportunity for repentance to a certain amount of mortal sins, but it would seem this is especially true of sins that directly insult God such as a sacrilegious communion. If somebody consistently takes communion while in mortal sin it would seem that is an easy way to have God cease to give them opportunities for repentance and to take them from this life.

St Alphonse de Ligouri did a sermon on this topic, and stated that there is a maximum number of sins that God will pardon.  Now he certainly is not intending to befuddle Catholics into thinking along Calvanist-terms, but what he is saying is that God is patient and He stores up His Wrath; this is why chastisement seldom follows immediately after sin.  

What the Doctor is saying is that since life is finite, the number of possible sins we can commit is finite as well, which in turn means that there is a finite number of sins God will pardon in your life.  For example, if you could calculate your life and determined that you would die at a young age of 50, and supposing that 7 was the age in which you could attain reason, and it was only possible to commit one sin a second, then God could only pardon your for 1.36 billion sins, or factoring that multiple sins could be committed in a second, we could say you could sin possibly 3 sins in a second, that would lead to a maximum number of possible sins of 4.45 billion sins that God could pardon. There is a limit with the unlimited Mercy of God, because your life, not His, is finite.

So yes, God will also chastise a sinner if it may lead him to repentance, or He may end the sinner's life.  The very important truth to get out of all of this, is to make Peace with your Maker!  If you are in sin, get out of it.  If you have sins on your conscience, then Confess them! Never put off today, what you can do tomorrow, when it comes to your immortal soul.
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#5
(07-07-2017, 03:00 AM)Poche Wrote:
(07-06-2017, 10:38 PM)Melkite Wrote: This would be perfectly logical if God was more concerned about his honor than repentance of sinners.  However, I don't think the parable of the Prodigal Son matches up with a god that only tolerates a certain number of mortal sins.

God will not be mocked.

God was mocked when he forgave adulterers, prostitutes and tax collectors.  He was mocked before he fed the multitudes.  He was mocked when he was arrested.  Mocked when he was led away to be scourged.  Mocked as he hanged on the cross.  Christ's passion was replete with unrepentant mocking.  He bore it willingly out of love for those who might one day seek him.  For a God who will not be mocked, he seems to tolerate quite a bit of it.

The only way I can see him not tolerating it now is if the risen Christ is of a fundamentally different character than he was while on this earth.
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#6
God never sends anyone to Hell. His Son, Jesus is the judge and from things I have read of the near death experiences, of those that make doctrinal sense, we ourselves put us into hell. We become despondent over our habitual sinning and we begin to believe no one, not even Jesus can forgive us and even our past trips into the confessional become useless, because we disbelieve in the forgiveness given there. In our despair, we nullify the forgiveness of the sacrament by our disbelief and this stains our soul, so that when we die and we face the great Judge, we will turn away from His mercy and rush to our damnation on our own.

Many, the descriptions of souls running away from their judgement where there are no excuses and no squirming away from the stark reality of our unforgiven (by God or ourselves) transgressions, into the clutches of the evil ones. Many those who refuse forgiveness of their own sins, who die with lots of 'baggage', regrets that ties us to this unholy earth. Some come to the Judgement with this baggage, seeking mercy and receive an atonement of Purgatory, since their faith saves them.

But as for hell, we put ourselves there on our own and of our own freewill.
One should have an open mind; open enough that things get in, but not so open that everything falls out
Art Bell
  
I don't need a good memory, because I always tell the truth.
Jessie Ventura

Its no wonder truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense
Mark Twain

If history doesn't repeat itself, it sure does rhyme.
Mark Twain

You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
C.S. Lewis

Political Correctness is Fascism pretending to be manners.
George Carlin

“In a time of deceit…truth is a revolutionary act”
George Orwell
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#7
(07-07-2017, 11:45 AM)Zedta Wrote: God never sends anyone to Hell. His Son, Jesus is the judge and from things I have read of the near death experiences, of those that make doctrinal sense, we ourselves put us into hell. We become despondent over our habitual sinning and we begin to believe no one, not even Jesus can forgive us and even our past trips into the confessional become useless, because we disbelieve in the forgiveness given there. In our despair, we nullify the forgiveness of the sacrament by our disbelief and this stains our soul, so that when we die and we face the great Judge, we will turn away from His mercy and rush to our damnation on our own.

Many, the descriptions of souls running away from their judgement where there are no excuses and no squirming away from the stark reality of our unforgiven (by God or ourselves) transgressions, into the clutches of the evil ones. Many those who refuse forgiveness of their own sins, who die with lots of 'baggage', regrets that ties us to this unholy earth. Some come to the Judgement with this baggage, seeking mercy and receive an atonement of Purgatory, since their faith saves them.

But as for hell, we put ourselves there on our own and of our own freewill.

I tend to agree with you on this, Z-Man, but have to ask a couple of questions.  First of all, if, as many Christians still believe, including not a small number of Catholics and even Orthodox, hell is a physical location, who created it?  Secondly, related to the first question, if it isn't a physical place just what is it?  We talk about it as if it were some kind of location somehow located in space somewhere, but if that's not the case, well..... :s   I've read in couple of places a kind of history of the development of the concept of hell, but for the life of me it escapes me where and just what that development looked like...I guess it'd be different depending on your religious orientation.

I tend to agree, too, with what Melkite has written elsewhere about what kind of God would create creatures knowing full well that they would somehow choose to spend their eternity either burning in a physical fire or totally separated from Him or hating Him so much that, being "stuck" with Him for eternity was, in fact, hell?  Notice I used the word "tend"...as I remain rather ambivalent and unsure about it all.
“But all will be well, and all will be well, and every kind of thing will be well.” ~Julian of Norwich

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#8
(07-07-2017, 01:11 PM)J Michael Wrote: I tend to agree, too, with what Melkite has written elsewhere about what kind of God would create creatures knowing full well that they would somehow choose to spend their eternity either burning in a physical fire or totally separated from Him or hating Him so much that, being "stuck" with Him for eternity was, in fact, hell?  Notice I used the word "tend"...as I remain rather ambivalent and unsure about it all.

I am finding consolation in the Apocalypse of Peter.  It indicates that, through the prayers of the saints, hell will not be permanent and that all will be reconciled to God.  It may have been the source for St. Gregory's and Origen's believe in universal salvation.  I know that this is not a canonical piece, but knowing that it was so widely accepted as scriptural by the early Church that it was nearly included in the NT canon gives me hope that it is accurate, and at least not heretical.

Although, I do wonder, if God told Peter not to reveal that to anybody because people would go on sinning if they knew, why did he then go and reveal it?
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#9
(07-07-2017, 01:38 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 01:11 PM)J Michael Wrote: I tend to agree, too, with what Melkite has written elsewhere about what kind of God would create creatures knowing full well that they would somehow choose to spend their eternity either burning in a physical fire or totally separated from Him or hating Him so much that, being "stuck" with Him for eternity was, in fact, hell?  Notice I used the word "tend"...as I remain rather ambivalent and unsure about it all.

I am finding consolation in the Apocalypse of Peter.  It indicates that, through the prayers of the saints, hell will not be permanent and that all will be reconciled to God.  It may have been the source for St. Gregory's and Origen's believe in universal salvation.  I know that this is not a canonical piece, but knowing that it was so widely accepted as scriptural by the early Church that it was nearly included in the NT canon gives me hope that it is accurate, and at least not heretical.

Although, I do wonder, if God told Peter not to reveal that to anybody because people would go on sinning if they knew, why did he then go and reveal it?

Fair enough.
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#10
(07-07-2017, 01:11 PM)J Michael Wrote: I tend to agree with you on this, Z-Man, but have to ask a couple of questions.  First of all, if, as many Christians still believe, including not a small number of Catholics and even Orthodox, hell is a physical location, who created it?  Secondly, related to the first question, if it isn't a physical place just what is it?  We talk about it as if it were some kind of location somehow located in space somewhere, but if that's not the case, well. 

Here are a few Biblical accounts:


Quote:Job20:18 Endlessly he shall pay for the wrong he did, plagued in the measure of his own false dealings. 19 He who oppressed and robbed the poor shall never prosper with his ill-gotten fortunes; 20 he, the insatiable, will not keep what he so coveted; 21 he, that never had a crust to spare, will be stripped now of all his goods. 22 Once so full fed, now he goes in need; stands in doubt, with distress crowding in on every side; 23 ah for a meal to fill his belly with! But no, God’s angry vengeance is let loose on him, raining down all its weapons; 24 shuns he the steel, to the bow of bronze he falls a prey. 25 Bright and bitter the drawn sword threatens; about him, dread warriors come and go.[1] 26 He hides away, where thick darkness broods over him;[2] straightway a fire no human hand has kindled threatens to devour him; woe betide any that would take refuge in that dwelling! 27 Heaven will reveal the story of his crimes, earth itself rise in revolt against him; 28 all the promise of his race will be laid bare and torn away, in that hour of the Lord’s vengeance.[3]


and...


Quote:Isaiah 33:14 In Sion itself there be guilty folk that tremble, false hearts full of dismay; who shall survive this devouring flame, the near presence of fires that burn unceasingly?


and...


Quote:Luke 16: 22 Time went on; the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; the rich man died too, and found his grave in hell.[2] 23 And there, in his suffering, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he said, with a loud cry, Father Abraham, take pity on me; send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, My son, remember that thou didst receive thy good fortune in thy life-time, and Lazarus, no less, his ill fortune; now he is in comfort, thou in torment. 26 And, besides all this, there is a great gulf fixed between us and you, so that there is no passing from our side of it to you, no crossing over to us from yours.

and...


Quote:Matthew 25: 41 Then he will say to those who are on his left hand, in their turn, Go far from me, you that are accursed, into that eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

From these Scriptural passages, one can glean it is a place of 'being' and 'existence', if you will (hellacious for body or spirit), and one created for the Fallen Angels and those who follow them and reject God. It is a place where God is not and if God is light and love and all that is good, then it is a place of utter darkness, utterly devoid of any speck of hope, completely lacking in any hint of love and where there is no rest but constant turmoil and torture and where "the worm never rests".
One should have an open mind; open enough that things get in, but not so open that everything falls out
Art Bell
  
I don't need a good memory, because I always tell the truth.
Jessie Ventura

Its no wonder truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense
Mark Twain

If history doesn't repeat itself, it sure does rhyme.
Mark Twain

You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
C.S. Lewis

Political Correctness is Fascism pretending to be manners.
George Carlin

“In a time of deceit…truth is a revolutionary act”
George Orwell
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