Catholic Charismatic Renewal - Movement
#31
(07-23-2017, 12:32 PM)olgamarie.tanon Wrote: Good day! I have to say I have mixed feeling about the Charismatic Renewal. I actually go it! and I am a trad too!

I say there is a time and place for everything! we have our meeting on Thursday nights but the formation classes, classes about the faith and bible are Mondays of course everything is voluntary. I have to say to some point I think everyone should have the experience the mayority  of the trads are to cold, serious and even rude! one must be happy in the Lord and transmit that happiness to others, make people say "I want what that person has" these people contrary to the many cafeteria catholics know who the receive in the Eucharist. Now I do see the danger of  some not all wanting to be charismatic at mass but not , all many know time to praise and worship in a charismatic way is separate from mass, mass must be respectful and reverent , so here are my thoughts as a charismatic and a Traditional Latin Mass lover! -pax


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How do you reconcile your love for the Traditional Latin Mass with the charismatic Mass which typically involves guitars, drums and contemporary "praise and worship" music?
Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

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#32
(07-23-2017, 04:15 PM)MichaelNZ Wrote:
(07-23-2017, 12:32 PM)olgamarie.tanon Wrote: Good day! I have to say I have mixed feeling about the Charismatic Renewal. I actually go it! and I am a trad too!

I say there is a time and place for everything! we have our meeting on Thursday nights but the formation classes, classes about the faith and bible are Mondays of course everything is voluntary. I have to say to some point I think everyone should have the experience the mayority  of the trads are to cold, serious and even rude! one must be happy in the Lord and transmit that happiness to others, make people say "I want what that person has" these people contrary to the many cafeteria catholics know who the receive in the Eucharist. Now I do see the danger of  some not all wanting to be charismatic at mass but not , all many know time to praise and worship in a charismatic way is separate from mass, mass must be respectful and reverent , so here are my thoughts as a charismatic and a Traditional Latin Mass lover! -pax


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How do you reconcile your love for the Traditional Latin Mass with the charismatic Mass which typically involves guitars, drums and contemporary "praise and worship" music?


Hi dear brother in Christ

Praise and worship is a separate event held in a weeknight , ours doesnt involve drums, just guitar, singing, prayer, bible reading and clapping.

The Mass is the THE MASS no charismatic stuff there, its time for recollection, prayer and reverence. There is a time and place for everything.


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#33
I am always surprised that Catholics are unaware that "Praise and Worship" music is a contemporary Protestant phenomenon, and if they do become aware of this, they do not think there might be a problem with it.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempora...ship_music
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#34
(07-23-2017, 11:17 PM)olgamarie.tanon Wrote:
(07-23-2017, 04:15 PM)MichaelNZ Wrote:
(07-23-2017, 12:32 PM)olgamarie.tanon Wrote: Good day! I have to say I have mixed feeling about the Charismatic Renewal. I actually go it! and I am a trad too!

I say there is a time and place for everything! we have our meeting on Thursday nights but the formation classes, classes about the faith and bible are Mondays of course everything is voluntary. I have to say to some point I think everyone should have the experience the mayority  of the trads are to cold, serious and even rude! one must be happy in the Lord and transmit that happiness to others, make people say "I want what that person has" these people contrary to the many cafeteria catholics know who the receive in the Eucharist. Now I do see the danger of  some not all wanting to be charismatic at mass but not , all many know time to praise and worship in a charismatic way is separate from mass, mass must be respectful and reverent , so here are my thoughts as a charismatic and a Traditional Latin Mass lover! -pax


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How do you reconcile your love for the Traditional Latin Mass with the charismatic Mass which typically involves guitars, drums and contemporary "praise and worship" music?


Hi dear brother in Christ

Praise and worship is a separate event held in a weeknight , ours doesnt involve drums, just guitar, singing, prayer, bible reading and clapping.

The Mass is the THE MASS no charismatic stuff there, its time for recollection, prayer and reverence. There is a time and place for everything.


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I think olgamarie does have a good point here.

The reason why we as traditionalists usually abhor guitars and clapping at mass is because these things don't belong to the mass. The mass is the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice. When bread is transformed into His Body and the wine into His Blood, it re-presents the severing of His Blood from His Boody. It is literally Longinus' lance piercing his Sacred Heart, happening at this precise moment. It is not adequate to clap your hands and to sing "Oh happy day!" while this tremendous mystery is happening in front of you.

Outside mass, it is valid to praise Christ in every way possible. Why should it be better to listen to secular love songs than to the same melody praising God? If you reject any kind of music because its style has Protestant origins, you must also reject Bach....and any Catholic composer who was inspired by Bach.

However, one must always beware of not falling into "spiritual gluttony", as St. John of the Cross called it. Most of the time, you will experience God much better and deeper in silence and suffering than during enthusiastic - yet shallow - clapping, singing and dancing.
"Cor Jesu Rex Et Centrum Omnium Cordium, miserére nobis "

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#35
In Michael's defense, I would be curious where OlgaMarie is? Every 'charismatic' Mass I've ever had the misfortune of attending or have heard about has prominently featured clapping, guitars, drums and other totally inappropriate instruments.

And in MY defense, the only reason I ever ended up at any such Masses is sloth! :)  If I had missed Mass earlier, there was a 'charismatic' Mass late Sunday afternoon, presenting my last chance to fulfill my Obligation.
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#36
(07-24-2017, 10:31 AM)JosefSilouan Wrote: Outside mass, it is valid to praise Christ in every way possible. Why should it be better to listen to secular love songs than to the same melody praising God? If you reject any kind of music because its style has Protestant origins, you must also reject Bach....and any Catholic composer who was inspired by Bach.

Bach was composing music for the structure of the Catholic Liturgy (mass in B minor) that originated from the ambience of Catholicism, so that conclusion doesn't need to be made.

There is an element of mixing the sacred and profane with "praise and worship" music, as it is primarily light rock.

The reason why "praise and worship" music developed in "Evangelical non denominational" sects is because they do not have true worship, having done away with even any pretense of liturgy or Eucharist a la the Lutherans and Anglicans.

So what has become the main part of the non denominationalists` "worship service", novus ordo Catholics are now incorporating as a supplement.

What this is is an emotionalism fulfillment because, unbeknownst to them, the post Vatican II parish liturgy is unfullfilling.
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#37
(07-24-2017, 08:38 PM)BC Wrote: There is an element of mixing the sacred and profane with "praise and worship" music, as it is primarily light rock.

"Pro-fane" means literally "outside the temple", because in ancient Israel, there was a strict separation between the sacred, inside the temple, and the non-sacred, "profane", outside the temple. The profane and the sacred were separated by a veil.

When Jesus spilled His Blood, the veil tore apart. Since then, there is no such thing as "profane". The whole world got spiritualized by His Blood. Everything is sacred (however in different degrees), except the sinful. At least, this is the way Catholicism views the world. That's why we are generally optimistic about art, literature, music, food and wine.

If light hearted rock music is sinful, it should not be played at all. If not, it can be used for worship, as every second of our life should be filled with prayer and worship.

However, I personally prefer Mozart and Beethoven  :P
"Cor Jesu Rex Et Centrum Omnium Cordium, miserére nobis "

“To pray is to shed blood.” - Silouan the Athonite
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#38
I would argue there is certainly a distinction between the secular and sacred.

Sacred Music vs. “Praise & Worship” – Does it Matter?

The fundamental problem with Praise & Worship 

https://onepeterfive.com/sacred-music-vs...matter-pt/

https://onepeterfive.com/sacred-music-vs...ter-pt-ii/
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#39
I had to go to a Novus Ordo this week as I was away and didn't have a nearby TLM. Let me tell you, the music made me want to vomit. Certainly way worse than your normal run of the mill NO music. Who gets inspired by this horrible 60s era music? Certainly the stuff from the past is preferred (especially Gregorian chant), but there are good and tasteful songs in English as well. If you're not going to use traditional Catholic music, at least use those and stop singing like it's a pop song and using drums and whatever other nonsense!
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#40
(07-25-2017, 08:25 AM)BC Wrote: I would argue there is certainly a distinction between the secular and sacred.

Sacred Music vs. “Praise & Worship” – Does it Matter?

The fundamental problem with Praise & Worship 

https://onepeterfive.com/sacred-music-vs...matter-pt/

https://onepeterfive.com/sacred-music-vs...ter-pt-ii/

Both articles talk about music for liturgical use.   My arguments before referred exlusively to non-liturgical music.
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