Husband sedevecantist problem
#11
He follows the pre Vatican II popes and saints and that's it. The famous 'address to the midwives' from an old pope saying it's alright to use nfp, he dismisses as a a one time thing and not an official statement rather a personal one. As you can see, I really don't know what to do. We've been missing a lot of Sunday mass because he only wants to go to the sspx one and it's far away for the baby so we just don't go a lot. It's upsetting. Sometimes I feel like the crazy one, he's very convincing. He was just a traditional catholic when we married
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#12
Sounds like your husband has a magisterium of his own. No NFP because he says, no Mass that he doesn't approve of because he says, sex whenever he wants and in spite of your lack of consent because he says.

"If I would refuse to have sex with him, he would call me a modernist And lube me up (hope that's not too crude) and have his way with me basically because he doesn't believe in rape in marriage."

This is very disturbing. Please get help. Talk to a marriage counselor, a trusted confessor, someone. Rape is any non-consensual sex; there is no "except in marriage" clause to it. If you tell your husband you don't want to have sex and he prepares you for it and does it anyway, there is a very serious problem. He should, out of love, respect the reasons behind not wanting to (too tired, not feeling well, etc). I know the "marriage debt" (in quotes because I feel like there's a better term for it out there than "debt"...sounds kind of begrudging) exists, but surely there are things that mitigate circumstances.

I would address his lack of love and respect toward you before the sedevacantist nonsense (no offense to those of you on here who have adopted that position, but there is absolutely no precedent for it whatsoever, even when there were three papal claimants). Within your marriage, it's clear that there are some very dangerous seeds being planted. You may come to resent what your husband is doing (and I understand if it's traumatic or upsetting for you) by misusing your marital gifts and that in turn can lead to a kind of mistrust or underlying negativity to the consensual acts.

As for Mass, I'm sure that's very unsettling. You could watch this in the meantime:

http://livemass.net/LiveMass/day.html
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#13
He really really hates John Paul II because of his ecumenism and he was photographed with half naked women or something. As for the rape thing, he doesn't hurt me so I think that as long as that doesn't happen he doesn't think it counts. He says that I consented when I married him etc.
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#14
I would like to emphasize that it is not traumatic and he does not abuse me so to speak and if I wasn't feeling well he would not force me. My husband does in fact love and cherish me he just forces the baby issue if it IS in fact about avoiding conceiving and he knows that I know when I ovulate. I know that it's a bit confusing but it's not quite as disturbing as it sounds.
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#15
(07-25-2017, 05:31 PM)Melissa9 Wrote: He really really hates John Paul II because of his ecumenism and he was photographed with half naked women or something. As for the rape thing, he doesn't hurt me so I think that as long as that doesn't happen he doesn't think it counts. He says that I consented when I married him etc.

John Paul II is a canonized saint. Canonizations employ the language of infallibility. The half-naked women were in Papua, New Guinea, so it wasn't like he was in New York City with a half-naked woman. That very well could be a cultural difference. Well, your husband is just clearly wrong, and his mentality is sad. It's true that you gave consent to the marriage debt, and he did the same with you, but that doesn't mean you can't freely express when you're tired, hurt, sick, etc. No truly loving husband is going to give you a hard time for not wanting to make love if you spent the whole day vomiting because of stomach flu/watching particularly energetic kids/in bed with a broken leg/etc. He'd attend to your needs and you guys could fulfill that at a more opportune time. Life happens. There are valid reasons to miss Mass; surely there are valid reasons to not want to make love.

" I would like to emphasize that it is not traumatic and he does not abuse me so to speak and if I wasn't feeling well he would not force me. My husband does in fact love and cherish me he just forces the baby issue if it IS in fact about avoiding conceiving and he knows that I know when I ovulate. I know that it's a bit confusing but it's not quite as disturbing as it sounds."

I don't want to invalidate your perception of things, but let me phrase it like this. Certain women who have abortions don't think they'll be traumatized. They go in, have their baby killed, walk out, and think, "Now I can go to work/school without any kind of handicap." Fast forward a bit and the deep-seated trauma that the event carries begins to take hold. They abuse alcohol. They self-harm. They can't escape the deep sense of shame. They know they killed their child and there is nothing they can do to bring him or her back. I do wonder if that kind of action would also have an underlying trauma because it's such a misuse of your body and gifts. You said he does it anyway, even if you don't want it, correct? So while it's good that he doesn't force you when you aren't feeling well, in a certain sense, he is still forcing you. And that's still something you really should talk to someone about.

He also needs to obey the fact that the Church has said NFP is all right in certain circumstances (dire poverty, etc). Obviously it isn't if you're living in a mansion and have every possible way to provide for them and you're doing it out of selfishness, but there are circumstances where it is acceptable. That's the teaching of the Church, not a "one time thing" that Pius XII mentioned once and you can discard it if you want.
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#16
Anyway it probably is rape-y but not quite as awful as you are imagining. That's why there is such a grey line about it! I clearly said no but I also enjoyed it so it's super duper grey. I definitely say no in the beginning though - does that make sense?
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#17
He just forces the sex if it's about conception point blank. Not sickness tired etc.
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#18
Sorry for the late replies, yes I saw your message just now and I understand what you're saying.
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#19
I'm sorry, but I can't read what you're typing without hearing a typical abused person's justifications.

"Well, I mean, he did hit me, but I shouldn't have made him angry."

"Maybe I should have taken out the trash before he got home so he wouldn't get so upset. Maybe I could have prevented it."

"I clearly said no but..."

He forces sex, period. Rape, within or outside of marriage, is a mortal sin if all the conditions are met. This is not just a, "Well, I'm tired, but sure, I'll fulfill the marital act" thing. This is, "No, I don't want to," and then he does it anyway.
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#20
(07-25-2017, 05:39 PM)Melissa9 Wrote: Anyway it probably is rape-y but not quite as awful as you are imagining. That's why there is such a grey line about it! I clearly said no but I also enjoyed it so it's super duper grey. I definitely say no in the beginning though - does that make sense?

There is no such thing as 'rape-y' and there is no 'grey line' whatsoever. NO MEANS NO!!! You said no and he forced himself on you. Whether or not you enjoyed it is absolutely immaterial! You were forced into non-consensual sex. That is RAPE!
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