A Theological Discussion Between the Catholics and the Orthodox
(08-25-2017, 02:07 PM)Klemens Wrote:
(08-25-2017, 08:38 AM)Jeeter Wrote:
(08-24-2017, 08:49 AM)Pacman Wrote: Orthodoxy teaches the Theotokos is Immaculate, but Orthodoxy just does not teach that this state was present at her conception. It's a matter of timing. Orthodoxy does not support the Immaculate Conception because then Mary would have just been a freak of nature who did not earn her holiness and glory through merit.

I'd say "freak of nature" is a bit harsh (politely speaking) for a discussion on the BVM.  

In all seriousness though, does this view mean that Mary was born with the potential to sin, but chose not to?
That's basically the idea. The Orthodox notion of the Bogurodzica's meritorious sinlessness somewhat answers the question why Christ came when He did. If the theory of Immaculate Conception is true then why would our Lord wait so long? I know there are other factors to consider, but if you think about it, why wasn't the first woman after Eve immaculately conceived in order to bring Christ into the world more quickly and therefore save the world at an earlier point?
So back full circle: born without sin and free will, and chose not to sin? Or predestined? Or somehow both?
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God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
This thread seems to have petered out.  Thought I would revive interest.  I have been listening to Mr. Coulombe's weekly podcast Off the Menu, and he has put forth some interesting ideas about the nature of the schism (for instance, that an Orthodox Christian, priest or layman, needs only to recognize the Pope and confess and receive communion in order to be a Catholic.  And that the current schism did not actually begin in 1054, or that the juridical schism and excommunications have all been lifted.)  I found all of this very interest, let me know what you think.

Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos, o Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee! Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Saviour and the Redeemer of our souls!

                                                      [Image: hailmary.jpg]
I said this earlier in another thread... the Orthodox and the East in general does not have such a view of "original sin." Instead, "original sin" is death. So there is no need in that theological framework for an "Immaculate Conception." I think this is the root of the theological difference involving the Immaculate Conception
"The true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries, nor innovators, but traditionalists." St Pope Pius X

Byzantine Ruthenian Rite Catholic.


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