Third Secret of Fatima about the Three Days of Darkness?
#21
I almost fell off the chair just now, because for a few seconds I thought you were referring to Father James Martin.
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#22
(09-18-2017, 12:19 PM)Eric F Wrote: I almost fell off the chair just now, because for a few seconds I thought you were referring to Father James Martin.

Dude.
"The missionaries of the 16th century were convinced that the unbaptized person is lost forever. After the Second Vatican Council, this conviction was definitely abandoned. The result was a two-sided, deep crisis. Without this attentiveness to salvation, the Faith loses its foundation." -Benedict XVI, Avvenire interview, March 16th, 2016
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#23
Thee were many false accounts about Fr Gruner being suspended. He never was.
Same for Fr Luigi Villa the writer of "Paolo Sesto beato ?"
Fr Martin was given the opportunity to read the 3rd Secret by his superior the Cardinal Bea who himself had read it.
Certainly Fr Martin was a problem for the modernist mafia. I have no proof that he was murdered but he got several death threats and he was a close friend of Fr Kunz who himself was murdered (case unsolved).
Fr Luigi Villa was severely beaten and once almost left like dead. Another time he had lost all his front teeth.
Certainly men like Frs Gruner, Villa, Martin were considered like mortal ennemies by the hidden agents of Satan at work in the Church. So every means to silence them was useful, slanders, threats, blackmails, forged documents etc...
Stephen Brady who relentlessly exposed the priestly paedophilia in the US gave up once he got death threats against his wife and his kids.
Regarding the document Prot. N. 04300/65 you are quoting as a proof Fr Martin was laicized, one may question it since we know everything is possible in the post conciliar Church, including bringing up fake documents. For example some typewritten letters of Sr Lucia were proven forged.
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#24
(09-18-2017, 04:49 PM)maso Wrote: Thee were many false accounts about Fr Gruner being suspended. He never was.
Same for Fr Luigi Villa the writer of "Paolo Sesto beato ?"
Fr Martin was given the opportunity to read the 3rd Secret by his superior the Cardinal Bea who himself had read it.
Certainly Fr Martin was a problem for the modernist mafia. I have no proof that he was murdered but he got several death threats and he was a close friend of Fr Kunz who himself was murdered (case unsolved).
Fr Luigi Villa was severely beaten and once almost left like dead. Another time he had lost all his front teeth.
Certainly men like Frs Gruner, Villa, Martin were considered like mortal ennemies by the hidden agents of Satan at work in the Church. So every means to silence them was useful, slanders, threats, blackmails, forged documents etc...
Stephen Brady who relentlessly exposed the priestly paedophilia in the US gave up once he got death threats against his wife and his kids.
Regarding the document Prot. N. 04300/65 you are quoting as a proof Fr Martin was laicized, one may question it since we know everything is possible in the post conciliar Church, including bringing up fake documents. For example some typewritten letters of Sr Lucia were proven forged.

All red herrings. 

First we're dealing with Malachi Martin here. Not Fr. Villa, not Fr. Grunder, nor Stephen Brady and certainly not Sr. Lucy. Let's, then, deal with Malachi Martin.

Again, you've taken us to the "no proof equals proof of a coverup" territory, where everyone's "enemies" are out to get them, our heroes can do no wrong, and anyone who suggests that there may be some problems are "the enemies of the Church" and "agents of Satan", and, by the way, eat Irish children for dinner!

That kind of triumphalism bridges on lunacy because it is far removed from reality. How can one argue with one for whom complete lack of evidence is the best evidence that the truth is being hidden by "them".

There is a great story about the confessor of the King, Louis XVI, who was tortured to try to make him reveal the king's secrets. Finally he said he would tell what he learned from hearing confessions : "There are no great men". Malachi Martin and Fr. Villa, were sinners just like you and me. They were no immune sin, and from possibly embellishing the truth, just like you and me. I don't say they did, but it does no one any good to pretend that serious problems with a person's credibility

We have only the claim from Malachi Martin the story that John XXIII shared it with him in a car, or was it Cardinal Bea who showed it to him? Both stories also were claimed at different times by Malachi Martin. One of them may be true. Perhaps the different story are easily explained. It was John XXIII who gave it to Cardinal Bea who showed it to Martin. I do not say it is false, but we have no evidence it is apart from Martin's claim. So we have to rely on his credibility. For me, that's a bridge too far, given his other issues. I will never say he is a liar, but I will say that I can't be morally that such is the truth without corroborating evidence.

Your defense is hero worship, plain and simple, and it has blinded you to reality. You want to write off the document I cited as fake, except, as I wrote, that document was cited by Malachi Martin himself as proof that he was legitimately released from the Jesuit order, against criticism of him from Jesuits.

Therein lies the problem : Malachi Martin offered three different stories. First, he was a Jesuit who has been given special leave from his order, and Paul VI personally dispensed his vows of obedience and poverty. Another time he was secularized and was an active secular priest (who oddly enough, despite him being a "traditionalist," went around in lay clothing). Yet later he cited this decree which suggests he reduced to the lay state and had no longer any claim to the title "Father", nor could he exercise a priestly ministry (which many claim he was doing).

Malachi Martin may offer some important contributions, and may have been a maligned figure, but it is quite clear that there are serious questions about him and his credibility.

You are most welcome to accept him as credible. I cannot, at least not without reservations.
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