Prayer Request and Advice Needed
#11
Another update and request for continued prayers:
Last week, we had a first visit as a family with Pilgrim's parents.  It went reasonably well.  After the evening, my middle son said that he thought we should always go over together because they behaved better.  I found out that one of the few reasons they might be disciplined at my in-laws' house is if they are shrieking.  Hmm . . . That's different and explains a lot.  

Then this week we went over.  I brought a desert for everyone.  Pilgrim was going to head over after work.  No sooner did the children go off to play then I was asked to justify our decision to come over as a family.  Pilgrim and I discussed it beforehand and agreed that if this were to occur, we would leave and come back another time.  So, I explained that this topic wasn't open for discussion and that if we couldn't change the topic, that I would leave with the children.  That was met with some hostility, so I got the kids and left.  

We have asked to "agree to disagree" on this issue and for them to respect our decision as the parents.  That's not working and Pilgrim and I are both frustrated and heart sick.  We don't want this conflict in our family.
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#12
(10-07-2017, 12:23 AM)Fontevrault Wrote: Another update and request for continued prayers:
Last week, we had a first visit as a family with Pilgrim's parents.  It went reasonably well.  After the evening, my middle son said that he thought we should always go over together because they behaved better.  I found out that one of the few reasons they might be disciplined at my in-laws' house is if they are shrieking.  Hmm . . . That's different and explains a lot.  

Then this week we went over.  I brought a desert for everyone.  Pilgrim was going to head over after work.  No sooner did the children go off to play then I was asked to justify our decision to come over as a family.  Pilgrim and I discussed it beforehand and agreed that if this were to occur, we would leave and come back another time.  So, I explained that this topic wasn't open for discussion and that if we couldn't change the topic, that I would leave with the children.  That was met with some hostility, so I got the kids and left.  

We have asked to "agree to disagree" on this issue and for them to respect our decision as the parents.  That's not working and Pilgrim and I are both frustrated and heart sick.  We don't want this conflict in our family.

if by "disciplined" you mean physical discipline, that only creates problems down the line. I would not allow anyone do that to my children and I encourage you to remove your children from your in-laws house or have a stern conversation with them. Beating children only helps ones-own ego, it has nothing to do with the childrn themselves. There are a lot of more effective ways to discipline them.
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#13
No, I'm talking time outs, perhaps a missed dessert or the like.
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#14
Update and renewed request for prayers.

We are offering another visit - this time at a public place where nasty altercations are unlikely to occur.  Please pray that it goes well.  We are trying so hard to make this work . . .
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#15
Well, that didn't go well.  They insulted me, my husband, our parenting, you name it.  Pilgrim is mad enough to tell them off royally and I don't know if I have it in me to talk him out of it.
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#16
(09-20-2017, 04:21 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Some background:
For a while now, we have been dealing with some not so fun behaviors from our children.  It's nothing out of this world awful, but every time the kids go to Pilgrim's parents' house, they come back and are horrible for 2-3 days.  We are talking pooping pants, peeing on the floor, screaming fits, not sleeping -- downright weird behavior.  So, today Pilgrim asked his father to please change the format of the visit and we would all come over each week so that they would continue to see the kids but so that we could also work with the kids on whatever is going on.  The request was met with a diatribe over every decision we have made in the last year and a half.  I'm not kidding when I say that my husband is fed up.  He sat there and let his father rip into him for an hour or so and was flat out shocked by the response.  Pilgrim was blamed for his mother being unhappy in Colorado, the fact that we moved 20 minutes away, just about everything that's wrong in his parents' life.

Every activity - even things not involving the grandparents - involves upheaval, just not usually this much.  I don't think we are in the wrong for wanting to make this change.  Something is off and I don't know what.

So . . .  do you think we were wrong?  How might we have handled it better?

Also, please pray for all of us, most especially Pilgrim and the kids.  This is bound to blow up into something terrible and I know they are going to get hurt in the process. I just can't think of how to fix it aside from letting the in-laws have their way; that's not possible right now.

I suggest you have your children seen by a doctor, and discuss their behavioral issues and patterns with him.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, especially since I don't know the situation in person, but your children's behavioral issues as you describe them sound like they could be indications of child abuse.
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#17
http://www.stopitnow.org/ohc-content/tip-sheet-7

Tip Sheet: Warning Signs of Possible Sexual Abuse In A Child's Behaviors
Any one sign doesn't mean that a child was sexually abused, but the presence of several suggests that you begin asking questions and consider seeking help. Keep in mind that some of these signs can emerge at other times of stress such as:
  • During a divorce
  • Death of a family member or pet
  • Problems at school or with friends
  • Other anxiety-inducing or traumatic events
Behavior you may see in a child or adolescent
  • Has nightmares or other sleep problems without an explanation
  • Seems distracted or distant at odd times
  • Has a sudden change in eating habits
    • Refuses to eat
    • Loses or drastically increases appetite
    •  Has trouble swallowing.
  • Sudden mood swings: rage, fear, insecurity or withdrawal
  • Leaves “clues” that seem likely to provoke a discussion about sexual issues
  • Writes, draws, plays or dreams of sexual or frightening images
  • Develops new or unusual fear of certain people or places
  • Refuses to talk about a secret shared with an adult or older child
  • Talks about a new older friend
  • Suddenly has money, toys or other gifts without reason
  • Thinks of self or body as repulsive, dirty or bad
  • Exhibits adult-like sexual behaviors, language and knowledge
Signs more typical of younger children
  • An older child behaving like a younger child (such as bed-wetting or thumb sucking)
  • Has new words for private body parts
  • Resists removing clothes when appropriate times (bath, bed, toileting, diapering)
  • Asks other children to behave sexually or play sexual games
  • Mimics adult-like sexual behaviors with toys or stuffed animal
  • Wetting and soiling accidents unrelated to toilet training
Signs more typical in adolescents
  • Self-injury (cutting, burning)
  • Inadequate personal hygiene
  • Drug and alcohol abuse
  • Sexual promiscuity
  • Running away from home
  • Depression, anxiety
  • Suicide attempts
  • Fear of intimacy or closeness
  • Compulsive eating or dieting
Physical warning signs
Physical signs of sexual abuse are rare.  If you see these signs, bring your child to a doctor.   Your doctor can help you understand what may be happening and test for sexually transmitted diseases.
  • Pain, discoloration, bleeding or discharges in genitals, anus or mouth
  • Persistent or recurring pain during urination and bowel movements
  • Wetting and soiling accidents unrelated to toilet training
What You Can Do If You See Warning Signs
  • Create a Safety Plan. Don’t wait for “proof” of child sexual abuse.
  • Look for patterns of behavior that make children less safe. Keep track of behaviors that concern you. This Sample Journal Page can be a helpful tool.
  • See our Let’s Talk Guidebook for tips on speaking up whenever you have a concern.
  • If you have questions or would like resources or guidance for responding to a specific situation, visit our Online Help Center.
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#18
Thank you very much.  

Kids are going to the doctor anyway.  Will make sure that we rule out anything that horrible.

The feud goes on.  The anger involved seems unreasonable.
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#19
I’ll keep y’all in my prayers. 

I’m stumped at this point. The kids behavior sounds like what my boys went through after they’d come home from running feral at grandmas and we suddenly expected them to behave. Long story.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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#20
Well, I'm convinced feral behavior is the main problem.  But, I'd rather be on the safe side.  

What troubles me is the extreme anger that we've experienced.  I'm shocked by the ire and immovable attitude.  It pains Pilgrim terribly and yet he is dedicated to doing what is right for the children.
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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