Prominent Southern Baptist "Pastor" says Satan Created Catholicism
#51
(10-23-2017, 03:48 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote:   In fact it appears to me that Pope Francis has somewhat of a fondness for Lutherans.
Lets face it, Pope Francis has somewhat of a fondness for any religion that isn't Catholic.
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#52
And, BTW, here's a quote from the founder of the sect, inspired by Satan,  that Pope Francis is so fond of, 'I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist.' :@
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
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#53
(10-23-2017, 04:50 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: "In His Love" and "MagisterMusicae" thank you for your debate with me.  I was raised Southern Baptist.  I must unfortunately do some work now.  But really, the way in which the truth is delivered can mean the difference between bringing someone to the true faith and driving them further away.  I do not see much charity in some of the posts in this thread and simply wanted to make that point.

The Southern Baptist Convention was at one time a pro-abortion organization.

Catholics cannot accept what Southern Baptists believe because Southern Baptist beliefs are based on an inherent contradiction, and God cannot be the author of a contradiction.

Southern Baptists believe that the Bible contains 66 books, yet they also believe in Sola Scriptura, which tells them to reject beliefs that they cannot find in the Bible.

But nowhere does the Bible state that it contains 66 books.  The idea that the Bible is comprised of 66 books is as "unbiblical" as can be.  

Where in the Bible, and using the Bible only please, does the Baptist contend that it teaches that there are 66 books?

Thus, at the same time the Baptist professes belief in a doctrine which tells him to reject things that are not taught in the Bible, he also believes in something that is not taught in the Bible.

An absurdity that no right thinking person can ever accept.

Baptists profess belief in Sola Scriptura, yet they are not able to define that doctrine, nor tell anyone exactly what such a belief entails, which is demonstrated by two words:  infant baptism.

Since the Reformation, tens of millions of people have held/hold that infant baptism is consistent with Sola Scriptura, and they claim/ed that the Holy Spirit led them to that belief. 

Also since the Reformation, tens of millions of people have held/hold that infant baptism is NOT consistent with Sola Scriptura, and they claim/ed that the Holy Spirit led them to that belief.

That tells a person that tens of millions of people don't understand Sola Scriptura, even while they claim to believe in it.

The question becomes:  Which side does not understand that doctrine?

Lutherans, who predate Baptists, baptize infants.
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#54
(10-24-2017, 10:18 PM)DJR Wrote: Where in the Bible, and using the Bible only please, does the Baptist contend that it teaches that there are 66 books?

Does the table of contents count?
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#55
(10-24-2017, 04:31 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: And, BTW, here's a quote from the founder of the sect, inspired by Satan,  that Pope Francis is so fond of, 'I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist.' :@

Over the years Southern Baptists say with certainty that whoever is in St. Peter's Chair, that current Pope is the Antichrist.  It bothers them not at all that they are continuously wrong every time.  

St. Bernard speculated that a future antipope could also serve as the AntiChrist, but Baptists do not know anything about those distinctions.  A pope is not an antipope and an antipope is not a pope.

So if Baptists keep alleging it eventually they might be right, but for reasons they don't understand.
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#56
(10-22-2017, 08:47 AM)BC Wrote: This isn't anything new really. 

But it is a good reminder that Protestantism exists because its sects' founders believed in the falsity of the Catholic Faith, and therefore it not being from God.  Why I point this out though is what an insult it is to Catholics for so called Catholic clergy to engage in Vatican II ecumenism where Baptists like this man are treated as " brothers in Christ." 

Did Satan Create Catholicism? Trump-Supporting Pastor Robert Jeffress Thinks So

https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-satan-cre...33867.html

(What a terrifying shock it will be to this man to find out at his particular judgment that reality is the exact opposite of what he believed).

Also, you Northerners should be thankful you are not surrounded all the time with wicked oppressive heresy like in the South. You may have massive loss of Faith but identity thieves like these guys is worse in my opinion.


You have NO idea! There are MANY sects and variants of this denomination in the Northern US. I grew up in the very anti Catholic Church of Christ, and in Lancaster County PA, there are numerous groups who espouse these views. Unfortunately, it doesn't help the cause of Christ and in bringing Protestants like these into the Church when you see the vile indifferentism posing as Kumbayanity within the Vatican.


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#57
(10-23-2017, 03:02 PM)Jeeter Wrote:
(10-23-2017, 02:52 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: Perhaps the RCC needs to look as what really spurned Luther, Calvin, and the other Reformers on.  Maybe she needs to do some soul searching. Perhaps then she will understand the wrath that lingers in the veins of the Protestants, a wrath handed down by their forebears who had been trampled underfoot by the princes and lords of the Church. 

There's a world of difference between reforming something that truly needs to be reformed and cleaning up abuse, and starting one's own religion.


Quote:Indeed, Holy Mother Church is the mother of many, many churches.  

Sounds like they ran away from home to me.

Quote:Are her Protestant daughters abominations?  Have they prostituted themselves from the true faith?  

Yes.

I don't think that Luther and some of the others really intended to start new churches. Peter Waldo didn't. He wanted as a lay person to be able to preach the gospel as I believe Jesus or the apsotles tell us to bear witness to Christ. But it wound up becoming a movement on its own/ Read some place that Pope Francis or Pope Benedict has  reached out to the Waldesians.
The Cathars of course didn't survive in Southern France or Northern Italy. They did make an attempt to go to England  and convert people but I think Edward1 ? who heard them out but threw them naked out into the street and told people not to cloth feed or house them so they died. Now it might be possible that  a few did survive despite the king's request. If so they  might have been the source of the Lollards  an english group of heretics.  You can look up Lumley Castle. It's haunted by the ghost of Lady Lumley . While her husband was away some monks came to call. Apparently they heard she had converted to the Lollards  and tried to convert her back. When she refused.They threw her in a well where she died. Her husband came back and is said to have killed them.So supposedly they haunt the castle as well.
These Baptists and others forget they are actually offshoots of people or groups who broke from the Church. While not a scholar, I can imagine much of their teachers are way different from the Cathars Waldesians Dolcinte and other groups including the Arians etc.
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#58
(10-25-2017, 03:48 PM)HollyDolly Wrote: I don't think that Luther and some of the others really intended to start new churches.

You are correct that they didn't want to start new churches. They wanted to 'reform' Christ's Church, under the direction of Satan, so it would no longer be a source of saving grace. Of course, since we have the promise of Christ that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Catholic Church, the only Church He founded, they failed.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
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#59
IMHO, if we honestly want to see all who have been baptized into Christ under the banner of Christ's Universal Church, The Bride, then we must banish the word "heretic" from our communications.  As we all know the Roman Catholics are branded "heretics" by the Orthodox because of the Filioque (which is in fact contrary to the anathema placed by the Council BTW).  In the Orthodox view, the Pope is a heretic and a true pope cannot teach heresy (the Filioque and other new doctrines not arrived at through a true ecumenical council), thus they remain in schism.  On the other hand, the Roman Catholics state that the Orthodox are heretics because they do not accept the legitimate authority of the Pope.  Then both the Roman Catholics and Orthodox brand all other the sects and denominations as heretics as well because of many theological differences.  (To be blatantly honest, there are even Rad Trads that brand the N.O. folks as heretics!)  We must find a common core from which dialogue can happen.  At some point, one is a "heretic" no matter where one stands.  It is Catch 22.  If I am Protestant, I am a heretic according to the RCC and the Orthodox.  If I am Orthodox, I am a heretic according to the RCC and the Protestants.  If I am a Roman Catholic, I am a heretic according to the Orthodox and the Protestants.  

We must also realize that language holds us hostage.  We must understand that often what we hold at the very center of our being does not always express itself in a manner that is easily understood by others and many times two sides are closer than what they each realize.  Recently someone told the story of a Down's Syndrome Child who refused to get on the school bus.  The teachers worked and worked with him but he refused to budge.  He became unruly, yelling and screaming and thrashing about.  Finally one teacher who had disabled children of her own asked him, what time did your mother tell you to take the bus?  He replied 3pm.  It was 2:45, the bus was early by 15 minutes.  The child was about to be branded a trouble maker, and would have had a stigma throughout the school year with the other teachers had this one not stepped in.

Isaiah 55: 8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts. 

We simply cannot understand the depths of God's mind.  Moreover, we cannot probe the depths of the hearts of other people.  This pastor is simply regurgitating what he has learned, what has been handed down to him from the fear placed in the hearts of his forebears.  What is there that would entice him to consider the Roman Catholic Church as being of Christ and superior to the Baptist Church?  What would appeal to this man in the place where he stands today?  What can any of us point to that might help him see?  On the other hand, what would stand in his way?  Scandals?  In-fighting?  50,000 Protestants killed in the Reformation?  The sack of Constantinople?  The Inquisition?  All of these things strike fear in the hearts of Protestants and the acts of aggression although committed in the past keep them away.  Do not let your words add to their fears.

To the woman caught in adultery, Christ did not say: "You know that adultery is a sin and right now you deserve to go to hell.  Unless you repent, that is where you will end up."  NO.  He said, "Go and sin no more."  But here, the woman already knew the law.  She knew she was guilty.  How much more must we be patient with those who do not know and understand orthodox catholic doctrine?  They do not see their own guilt.

What would have become of Martin Luther had not the abuses in the RCC been ongoing when he was alive?  Where would we be today had indulgences not been sold to fund the building of Rome as we know it today?  Part of the problem is that the Roman Catholic Church, and many of its members, fail to recognize that it had a direct hand in the making of the Reformation.  ("Fathers provoke not your children to wrath.")

Perhaps we could simply say, "Dear Baptist Pastor, we understand that you may think this way, but it is not so.  We love Christ as much as you do.  What you are saying hurts us because of the love we have for Christ.  Nonetheless, we forgive you and will pray for His greatest blessings for you."  That might do more to move him than branding him a heretic from the outset.
Mater Dei, Ora pro nobis.
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#60
(10-25-2017, 04:03 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: IMHO, if we honestly want to see all who have been baptized into Christ under the banner of Christ's Universal Church, The Bride, then we must banish the word "heretic" from our communications.  As we all know the Roman Catholics are branded "heretics" by the Orthodox because of the Filioque (which is in fact contrary to the anathema placed by the Council BTW).  In the Orthodox view, the Pope is a heretic and a true pope cannot teach heresy (the Filioque and other new doctrines not arrived at through a true ecumenical council), thus they remain in schism.  On the other hand, the Roman Catholics state that the Orthodox are heretics because they do not accept the legitimate authority of the Pope.  Then both the Roman Catholics and Orthodox brand all other the sects and denominations as heretics as well because of many theological differences.  (To be blatantly honest, there are even Rad Trads that brand the N.O. folks as heretics!)  We must find a common core from which dialogue can happen.  At some point, one is a "heretic" no matter where one stands.  It is Catch 22.  If I am Protestant, I am a heretic according to the RCC and the Orthodox.  If I am Orthodox, I am a heretic according to the RCC and the Protestants.  If I am a Roman Catholic, I am a heretic according to the Orthodox and the Protestants. 

In my opinion, this is a dangerous way of approaching non-Catholic religions. Should we also banish the word "idolator" because the Muslims believe Jesus is not God and we worship Him?

Just because some protestants and Orthodox think we're "heretics" doesn't make it so. The Church has the authority to declare what is heresy and what is not.
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