Prominent Southern Baptist "Pastor" says Satan Created Catholicism
#61
(10-25-2017, 04:12 PM)In His Love Wrote: In my opinion, this is a dangerous way of approaching non-Catholic religions. Should we also banish the word "idolator" because the Muslims believe Jesus is not God and we worship Him?

Just because some protestants and Orthodox think we're "heretics" doesn't make it so. The Church has the authority to declare what is heresy and what is not.

Jesus has authority to say what is sin and what isn't.  He didn't use that authority to reach the woman caught in adultery.  

You must first convince the Baptist preacher that the RCC has the authority to do what it does.  Then when he accepts the authority and teachings of the RCC he will no longer be a heretic in your eyes.  So what game plan do you have for reaching this soul?
Mater Dei, Ora pro nobis.
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#62
(10-25-2017, 04:16 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: Jesus has authority to say what is sin and what isn't.  He didn't use that authority to reach the woman caught in adultery.  

You must first convince the Baptist preacher that the RCC has the authority to do what it does.  Then when he accepts the authority and teachings of the RCC he will no longer be a heretic in your eyes.  So what game plan do you have for reaching this soul?

"About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they are just one thing and we shouldn't complicate the matter." - St. Joan of Arc

As for the part I bolded, my eyes aren't the important factor, but the eyes of Jesus and His Church. Jesus' vicars on earth have declared what is heresy and what is not. The Baptist preacher must "hear the Church," as the Bible says.

I think the best methods are prayer, love, sacrifice, and informing them about the structure of the early Church and its teachings. I know of some great resources that outline those things.
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#63
(10-25-2017, 04:16 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 04:12 PM)In His Love Wrote: In my opinion, this is a dangerous way of approaching non-Catholic religions. Should we also banish the word "idolator" because the Muslims believe Jesus is not God and we worship Him?

Just because some protestants and Orthodox think we're "heretics" doesn't make it so. The Church has the authority to declare what is heresy and what is not.

Jesus has authority to say what is sin and what isn't.  He didn't use that authority to reach the woman caught in adultery.  

You must first convince the Baptist preacher that the RCC has the authority to do what it does.  Then when he accepts the authority and teachings of the RCC he will no longer be a heretic in your eyes.  So what game plan do you have for reaching this soul?


I believe the first question to ask the Baptist preacher would be:  By what authority does he maintain that the Bible contains 66 books?

Then after he answers, I would ask him to point out where in the Bible one should look to test whether his answer holds any validity.

We must first get the preacher to understand his own positions better so as to enable him to see where those positions are erroneous.
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#64
(10-25-2017, 04:27 PM)DJR Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 04:16 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 04:12 PM)In His Love Wrote: In my opinion, this is a dangerous way of approaching non-Catholic religions. Should we also banish the word "idolator" because the Muslims believe Jesus is not God and we worship Him?

Just because some protestants and Orthodox think we're "heretics" doesn't make it so. The Church has the authority to declare what is heresy and what is not.

Jesus has authority to say what is sin and what isn't.  He didn't use that authority to reach the woman caught in adultery.  

You must first convince the Baptist preacher that the RCC has the authority to do what it does.  Then when he accepts the authority and teachings of the RCC he will no longer be a heretic in your eyes.  So what game plan do you have for reaching this soul?


I believe the first question to ask the Baptist preacher would be:  By what authority does he maintain that the Bible contains 66 books?

Then after he answers, I would ask him to point out where in the Bible one should look to test whether his answer holds any validity.  

We must first get the preacher to understand his own positions better so as to enable him to see where those positions are erroneous.

Excellent approach.  I do believe that the notion of "authority" is completely misunderstood in the Protestant denominations.
Mater Dei, Ora pro nobis.
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#65
(10-25-2017, 06:08 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 04:27 PM)DJR Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 04:16 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 04:12 PM)In His Love Wrote: In my opinion, this is a dangerous way of approaching non-Catholic religions. Should we also banish the word "idolator" because the Muslims believe Jesus is not God and we worship Him?

Just because some protestants and Orthodox think we're "heretics" doesn't make it so. The Church has the authority to declare what is heresy and what is not.

Jesus has authority to say what is sin and what isn't.  He didn't use that authority to reach the woman caught in adultery.  

You must first convince the Baptist preacher that the RCC has the authority to do what it does.  Then when he accepts the authority and teachings of the RCC he will no longer be a heretic in your eyes.  So what game plan do you have for reaching this soul?


I believe the first question to ask the Baptist preacher would be:  By what authority does he maintain that the Bible contains 66 books?

Then after he answers, I would ask him to point out where in the Bible one should look to test whether his answer holds any validity.  

We must first get the preacher to understand his own positions better so as to enable him to see where those positions are erroneous.

Excellent approach.  I do believe that the notion of "authority" is completely misunderstood in the Protestant denominations.

It seems to me that the Achilles Heel in Protestantism is the issue of the canon of Sacred Scripture vis-a-vis the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

That would be number one.

Number two is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura itself.  No one can tell us exactly what it entails.  

Millions and millions of people, from the 16th century forward, believe/d that Sola Scriptura is consistent with infant baptism, yet millions and millions of people believe/d just the opposite.

Both sides profess belief in Sola Scriptura, but obviously millions of people are wrong as to how to apply it.  Millions of people.  

But which ones are correct?

And what authority do we look to in order to determine which ones know what Sola Scriptura entails?

So, in other words, there are millions of people who profess belief in a doctrine that they cannot properly understand or apply.  

That is untenable for a thinking person.
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#66
Heresy exists regardless of whether we name it. Catholicism is the only Church which can be true and thus all other "churches" are heretical, its a mere fact. To deny the facts in order to placate those who promote falsehoods only brings a false unity. Sure, we get along and maybe some will come into the true Church but most will fall into the same confusion we see today. Refusing to admit the facts leads directly to relativism, and with relativism comes apathy which is the very antithesis of love.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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#67
(10-25-2017, 04:03 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: We must also realize that language holds us hostage. We must understand that often what we hold at the very center of our being does not always express itself in a manner that is easily understood by others and many times two sides are closer than what they each realize.  

Language is how we express the Truth. Sure, we often misspeak, but unless we are precise with language we fall into ambiguity and then gloss over differences, rather than actually address them.

It is only if a Catholic clearly expressed the Catholic view, and a Protestant clearly expresses his that we are going to get anywhere. What is the Catholic view : that Protestants hold doctrines which are fundamentally incompatible with the revelation, with historical truth and with the Faith taught by Christ and the Apostles.

I don't say we go around calling each Protestant a heretic, but we can say that apparently accept a sect which professes a heretical doctrine.

(10-25-2017, 04:03 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: We simply cannot understand the depths of God's mind.  Moreover, we cannot probe the depths of the hearts of other people.

But we can understand what God has revealed to us through Scripture and the Magisterium. We know what that "narrow path" to heaven is, and with a rare exception (à la Baptism of Desire or Blood) it involves becoming a member of Christ's Church which is the Catholic Church.

(10-25-2017, 04:03 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: This pastor is simply regurgitating what he has learned, what has been handed down to him from the fear placed in the hearts of his forebears.  What is there that would entice him to consider the Roman Catholic Church as being of Christ and superior to the Baptist Church?  What would appeal to this man in the place where he stands today?  What can any of us point to that might help him see?  On the other hand, what would stand in his way?  Scandals?  In-fighting?  50,000 Protestants killed in the Reformation?  The sack of Constantinople?  The Inquisition?  All of these things strike fear in the hearts of Protestants and the acts of aggression although committed in the past keep them away.  Do not let your words add to their fears.

Generally speaking broadly-accepted myths about such things none of which were the Mystical Spouse of Christ acting badly, but men behaving badly, like we see just as often in Protestant sects.

I am not saying you go up to his face and shout "heretic", but that if in a conversation one should clearly and unreservedly preach the Catholic Faith, accommodated to his understanding. For instance, showing how Scripture proves certain Catholic truths, or undermines his false doctrines.

(10-25-2017, 04:03 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: To the woman caught in adultery, Christ did not say: "You know that adultery is a sin and right now you deserve to go to hell.  Unless you repent, that is where you will end up."  NO.  He said, "Go and sin no more."  But here, the woman already knew the law.  She knew she was guilty.  How much more must we be patient with those who do not know and understand orthodox catholic doctrine?  They do not see their own guilt.

Who here has said such a thing as wanting this Protestant to go to hell. All of us here, I would hope, want the salvation of his soul. We just know that his heretical religious sect is not going to be the means to this.

Notice, however, that Jesus did not try to tell the woman she did well, or her actions are acceptable, or sorta okay. He addressed her in a way such that He knew she would respond well, and then was clear. He forgave her, but then admonished her to "sin no more."

I agree we need to help Protestants see their error, but we cannot call their error good, nor can we ever suggest that the Catholic Church (which is the Mystical Spouse of Christ) has somehow not done enough to convert them. That's to say that Christ did not give his spouse sufficient power!

(10-25-2017, 04:03 PM)prostrateinawe Wrote: What would have become of Martin Luther had not the abuses in the RCC been ongoing when he was alive?  Where would we be today had indulgences not been sold to fund the building of Rome as we know it today?  Part of the problem is that the Roman Catholic Church, and many of its members, fail to recognize that it had a direct hand in the making of the Reformation.  ("Fathers provoke not your children to wrath.")

Were there abuses, yes. Still that was not the reason for Martin Luther's rebellion. Luther's issue was his bad philosophy and theology.

He objected to indulgences not because they were being abused, but because his theology does not allow a man to do any meritorious work. This is why his 31st of the 95 Theses reads "'In omni opere bono iustus peccat" ("In every good work, the just man sins"). If man cannot do any good work, how could he do a good enough work to have removed the punishments due to sin.

The first thing necessary to addressing an interlocutor is to understand the history behind a position and correct the errors. Your understanding of Luther and his heresy is quite tainted by Protestant myth and not solidly founded on history, and that is critical to adequately addressing such matters.
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#68
(10-25-2017, 11:02 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: This is why his 31st of the 95 Thesis Theses reads "'In omni opere bono iustus peccat" ("In every good work, the just man sins"). If man cannot do any good work, how could he do a good enough work to have removed the punishments due to sin.
There, fixed it for you! :D
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#69
(10-26-2017, 01:03 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-25-2017, 11:02 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: This is why his 31st of the 95 Thesis Theses reads "'In omni opere bono iustus peccat" ("In every good work, the just man sins"). If man cannot do any good work, how could he do a good enough work to have removed the punishments due to sin.
There, fixed it for you! :D

As I like to say, "There are 3 types of people in this world : Those that can count, and those that can't."

Thanks, Jovan.
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#70
(10-26-2017, 01:21 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: As I like to say, "There are 3 types of people in this world : Those that can count, and those that can't."

I thought there were 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.
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