"Quick" question. USCCB + church teachings.
#11
How does Prop 57 contradict the Church’s infallible magisterium? The Church never taught that certain convictions MUST entail particular terms of punishment. If the bishop commands something against the infallible magisterium, I would disobey. Also, I would hope the bishop would be excommunicated.
"I am a Christian, and indeed a Roman Catholic, so that I do not expect ‘history’ to be anything but a ‘long defeat’ — though it contains (and in a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or glimpses of final victory." -J.R.R. Tolkien

"I know quite well that, to you as to me, the Church which once felt like a refuge, now often feels like a trap. There is nowhere else to go! (I wonder if this desperate feeling, the last state of loyally hanging on, was not, even more often than is actually recorded in the Gospels, felt by Our Lord’s followers in His earthly life-time?) I think there is nothing to do but pray, for the Church, the Vicar of Christ, and for ourselves; and meanwhile to exercise the virtue of loyalty, which indeed only becomes a virtue when one is under pressure to desert it." -J.R.R. Tolkien

"There is none so blind as he who will not agree with me." -someone else
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#12
(11-10-2017, 06:30 PM)Optatus Cleary Wrote: How does Prop 57 contradict the Church’s infallible magisterium? The Church never taught that certain convictions MUST entail particular terms of punishment. If the bishop commands something against the infallible magisterium, I would disobey. Also, I would hope the bishop would be excommunicated.

I was speaking only of the proposition to end the death penalty. I, too, oppose mandatory sentencing laws, and I know of no Magisterial teaching on the subject.
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#13
But does the church require the death penalty? I agree that it is not intrinsically immoral. My bishop probably thinks it is. But I’m not responsible for what’s in his brain. Banning the death penalty isn’t a sin. It might be a bad idea, but it isn’t sinful. So if the bishop says to do it, I’ll do it.
"I am a Christian, and indeed a Roman Catholic, so that I do not expect ‘history’ to be anything but a ‘long defeat’ — though it contains (and in a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or glimpses of final victory." -J.R.R. Tolkien

"I know quite well that, to you as to me, the Church which once felt like a refuge, now often feels like a trap. There is nowhere else to go! (I wonder if this desperate feeling, the last state of loyally hanging on, was not, even more often than is actually recorded in the Gospels, felt by Our Lord’s followers in His earthly life-time?) I think there is nothing to do but pray, for the Church, the Vicar of Christ, and for ourselves; and meanwhile to exercise the virtue of loyalty, which indeed only becomes a virtue when one is under pressure to desert it." -J.R.R. Tolkien

"There is none so blind as he who will not agree with me." -someone else
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#14
(11-09-2017, 09:12 PM)GRA Wrote: Does what the USCCB say about mmigration, gun control, the tax plan, refugees and health care (and whatever topic under the sun) count as "church teachings"?

I was told by my former pastor that these papers are made by committees that do not reflect the magesterial teachings of the Church.  They are opinons, no more and no less.   We are obligated to give them serious consideration, but as far as I'm concerned, the Bishops only have authority over faith and morals and cannot tell you how to vote unless the vote explicitly supports an intrinsic evil, such as abortion.

Since capital punishment is not, as defined by Church teaching, an intrinsic evil, you are not bound, in my opinion, to vote to get rid of it.  Now, having said that, I think there are very good reasons to vote against capital punishment from a practical point of view, and I do not believe in our legal system capital punishment adequately allows for protections of accused in conjunction with the Constitutional right for a speedy trial. (Does being in appeals limbo for years on end count as a "speedy trial"?  IANAL, but I definitely don't think so.)

Now, if I were in a situation where I thought a bishop was commanding me to vote in a way which I disagree with, and in a way which I thought exceeds his authority with regard to faith and morals (and not politics) then I would at the very least, talk to my priest.

The sad truth is, however, that bishops are like judges.  If you look hard enough, you can find one that will say almost anything.  If this doesn't show that the Church is in deep schism, I don't know what does.  If the Bishops (and even the Pope) are saying things that contradict Catholic teaching, it cannot be prudent to blindly obey them.
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