encountering a strange Catholisism
#11
(11-25-2017, 01:08 AM)Poche Wrote: All masses offer healing. The best form of healing are those which are spiritual.
I understand all Masses offer healing. But he was talking about alter calls and laying on of hands. That is not what should be going on during a Mass is it?
Bob

If my dog doesn't like you maybe I shouldn't either!!

“No one in the world can change Truth!”
St. Maximilian Kolbe, PRAY FOR US!
Reply
#12
(11-25-2017, 01:04 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Not to belittle your experience, but whenever there is some novel devotion it is time to be extremely wary.

Even if not incorporated into the Mass, the whole concept is from Evangelical Protestantism, and is thus bogus, meaning one ought to be extremely and highly suspect that such "experiences" are not of divine origin.

It is similar with "miracles" in Protestant sects. Is it possible that through some Protestant God can work a miracle? Sure. The question is, to see if it truly is from God, what the end or purpose of such a thing is. If it leads one to the true Faith, Sanctifying Grace, or Contrition, then it is probably a miracle. If it leads one toward a false sect, toward novel devotions, to a "peace of soul" without Contrition or anything in such vein, it is probably diabolical.

Sadly, most such Pentecostal things are seriously diabolocal, so much so that possessions from Pentecostalism (even so-called "Catholic" Pentecostalism) is not that uncommon.

I have definitely wondered whether what I experienced was really from God, something else, or maybe just in my imagination.  I don't think it was just in my imagination because, even though I didn't experience anything that anyone else could have observed me experiencing, I had very real physical sensations of pressure and heat.  If it was just my imagination, it was something I was never able to imagine before, nor have I been able to imagine since.  This was at the first one I went to.  My second was a few weeks later, and I was going more out of a desire to have the same experience, almost like it was a carnival ride.  I did experience some of the same warmth and pressure, but it was much, much reduced from what I had experienced the first time.  I don't know if that means the first time was me really wanting to experience something and making it happen, or if the first was real, and the second was what I could muster on my own and God refusing to be treated like a parlor trick.  But I got the point from that second one that God isn't a carnival ride, so my third one was about a decade later.  I didn't go with much intention to experience anything, and didn't experience anything.  I haven't really felt the need to go to one again.  If what I experienced at the first one was really from God, I think that was something he wanted me to experience only to know that he was real.

In my own doubts over Christianity, the experience I had at the first healing mass has been the only thing (or one of the few things, maybe) that prevents me from fully apostatizing.  Every intellectual argument I can muster against Christianity can't explain why I had that experience, or how that experience was even possible.  The closest I can get is that I imagined it, but that doesn't make much sense other than as a way of rationalizing it.  If that experience wasn't really from God, and isn't really proof that the Christian God is the true God, then there really is nothing to hold me back from completing my apostasy into deism.  Every other thing I used to see as proof that Christianity is true has been demolished.  I see them all as unverifiable claims now.  I'm not opposed to finding out that this experience did not really come from God (and if that is the truth, I want to know it).  But it is the last remaining anchor that ties me to the Christian faith.
I have resigned myself to the reality that I shall have no peace or joy should I continue to exist for eternity.  The question of deism or Christianity no longer matters.  I hope that Christianity is a farce, and that when I die, my consciousness will cease to exist.  In the meantime, I ask the Theotokos to be at my side at my judgement and ask her to intercede to, as I beg, Christ to have mercy on me and to allow me to cease to exist when I die.
Reply
#13
When I was in the army I did a lot of church hopping. I have attended healing services. I was uncomfortable. Maybe that is why I'm sceptical. Seemed to me that all they did was stir up emotions. That seems to be what most protestant churches do. I get turned off by that stuff.
Bob

If my dog doesn't like you maybe I shouldn't either!!

“No one in the world can change Truth!”
St. Maximilian Kolbe, PRAY FOR US!
Reply
#14
(11-25-2017, 12:47 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(11-25-2017, 01:04 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Not to belittle your experience, but whenever there is some novel devotion it is time to be extremely wary.

Even if not incorporated into the Mass, the whole concept is from Evangelical Protestantism, and is thus bogus, meaning one ought to be extremely and highly suspect that such "experiences" are not of divine origin.

It is similar with "miracles" in Protestant sects. Is it possible that through some Protestant God can work a miracle? Sure. The question is, to see if it truly is from God, what the end or purpose of such a thing is. If it leads one to the true Faith, Sanctifying Grace, or Contrition, then it is probably a miracle. If it leads one toward a false sect, toward novel devotions, to a "peace of soul" without Contrition or anything in such vein, it is probably diabolical.

Sadly, most such Pentecostal things are seriously diabolocal, so much so that possessions from Pentecostalism (even so-called "Catholic" Pentecostalism) is not that uncommon.

I have definitely wondered whether what I experienced was really from God, something else, or maybe just in my imagination.  I don't think it was just in my imagination because, even though I didn't experience anything that anyone else could have observed me experiencing, I had very real physical sensations of pressure and heat.  If it was just my imagination, it was something I was never able to imagine before, nor have I been able to imagine since.  This was at the first one I went to.  My second was a few weeks later, and I was going more out of a desire to have the same experience, almost like it was a carnival ride.  I did experience some of the same warmth and pressure, but it was much, much reduced from what I had experienced the first time.  I don't know if that means the first time was me really wanting to experience something and making it happen, or if the first was real, and the second was what I could muster on my own and God refusing to be treated like a parlor trick.  But I got the point from that second one that God isn't a carnival ride, so my third one was about a decade later.  I didn't go with much intention to experience anything, and didn't experience anything.  I haven't really felt the need to go to one again.  If what I experienced at the first one was really from God, I think that was something he wanted me to experience only to know that he was real.

In my own doubts over Christianity, the experience I had at the first healing mass has been the only thing (or one of the few things, maybe) that prevents me from fully apostatizing.  Every intellectual argument I can muster against Christianity can't explain why I had that experience, or how that experience was even possible.  The closest I can get is that I imagined it, but that doesn't make much sense other than as a way of rationalizing it.  If that experience wasn't really from God, and isn't really proof that the Christian God is the true God, then there really is nothing to hold me back from completing my apostasy into deism.  Every other thing I used to see as proof that Christianity is true has been demolished.  I see them all as unverifiable claims now.  I'm not opposed to finding out that this experience did not really come from God (and if that is the truth, I want to know it).  But it is the last remaining anchor that ties me to the Christian faith.

This event led you closer to Him, did it not? Therefore I see no reason why it couldn't be from God even if only indirectly. 

While it is ideal to not need physical feelings and whatnot to grow closer to God, that's not to say that He doesn't use them on occasion.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
Reply
#15
(11-23-2017, 09:27 AM)BobR67 Wrote: I was leaving daily Mass (not my home parish) last week when a gentleman came up to me and invited me to a healing Mass. I said "no thanks that's not my cup of tea I don't need a healing Mass for healing." He then said "we lay hands on people and they are healed." I replied "that sounds pretty Pentecostal to me, no thanks". He continued "don't you believe Jesus heals people today?" My reply was "he certainly does." Then I quickly got in my truck and left.

On the way home I was thinking of what I should have said. I am never good with on the spot replies. I probably should have said some thing like "we have the intercession of the saints for that sort of thing." Or for 2,000 we never had healing Masses. I have a feeling they all get around who needs to be healed and put there hands on them, there is probably some sort of yelling and ecstasy involved.

Strange thing is that I have been inundated with this type of modern Catholic thing these past month. I need a traditional parish. There are none within 75 miles.
Reply
#16
(11-30-2017, 12:18 AM)angeltime  Pax et Bonum!    When you say "inundated", I thought because your heart is turning more toward the traditional that you are not only more vigilant but also you are being faced with those who would try to take you away from that.  (they may not realize)  I was told years ago that we do have to be careful of people wanting to lay hands on each other in the name of healing mass.  There are too many fingers in the pie and I agree with some of the other comments, that we have Jesus in the Mass and Sacraments including our prayer and holy oil and holy water - so do we really need to expand on it?  God bless, angeltime Wrote:
(11-23-2017, 09:27 AM)BobR67 Wrote: I was leaving daily Mass (not my home parish) last week when a gentleman came up to me and invited me to a healing Mass. I said "no thanks that's not my cup of tea I don't need a healing Mass for healing." He then said "we lay hands on people and they are healed." I replied "that sounds pretty Pentecostal to me, no thanks". He continued "don't you believe Jesus heals people today?" My reply was "he certainly does." Then I quickly got in my truck and left.

On the way home I was thinking of what I should have said. I am never good with on the spot replies. I probably should have said some thing like "we have the intercession of the saints for that sort of thing." Or for 2,000 we never had healing Masses. I have a feeling they all get around who needs to be healed and put there hands on them, there is probably some sort of yelling and ecstasy involved.

Strange thing is that I have been inundated with this type of modern Catholic thing these past month. I need a traditional parish. There are none within 75 miles.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)