Is rock music sinful?
#1
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.p...dead-at-64

I've been wondering lately if I should stop. I've seen many arguments from traditional Catholics saying that both the lyrics and music itself cause rebellion and lead people away from God. I currently listen to hard rock and metal but just haven't felt right listening to it lately. What are your thoughts?
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#2
(11-27-2017, 05:32 PM)For Petes Sake Wrote: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.p...dead-at-64

I've been wondering lately if I should stop. I've seen many arguments from traditional Catholics saying that both the lyrics and music itself cause rebellion and lead people away from God. I currently listen to hard rock and metal but just haven't felt right listening to it lately. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that rock music is dead and you should be asking the question: Is hip-hop/rap sinful (yes).  Popular music has been used as subversive propaganda for most of America's history.  It's always been pure degeneracy.  I don't know that there's anything inherently sinful in it, but I do think that frequently tends to be the case.  I think the biggest danger with popular music is that it acts on your brain in such a way that it makes it more difficult to appreciate actually good music.  I was never able to listen to classical until I went cold turkey on rock, etc. for like a week.
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#3
My thoughts are that rock music is dead and you should be asking the question: Is hip-hop/rap sinful (yes).  

I'm not sure what you mean by dead as it's still very popular. I don't listen to or like hip/hop and rap. 
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#4
(11-27-2017, 08:40 PM)For Petes Sake Wrote: My thoughts are that rock music is dead and you should be asking the question: Is hip-hop/rap sinful (yes).  

I'm not sure what you mean by dead as it's still very popular. I don't listen to or like hip/hop and rap. 

I'm in agreement with you there.  It's definitely been dominating the charts in the past few years though.  I think that's objectively a bad thing.  But I also think it's a deliberate marketing decision.  Pretty much anything where the target market is white men, like rock, isn't a money maker.  Not because there aren't enough of us, but because statistically we are far less likely to spend our money and be influenced by advertising.  That single fact explains quite a bit about the music world and mass media in general.
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#5
Here's my opinion as someone who has been an amateur/hobby musician for most of my life: be discerning of who and what you listen to, but no pattern of rhythm and notes in and of itself can lead you away from God. (With the exception of a hypothetical involvement of the occult in the production of musical works, but I doubt that is the case with the majority of music.) Does the color of a painting make it more moral than another? Is oil more virtuous than acrylic? Is an abstract or pointilist style of painting more dangerous to the soul than something more classical of hyperrealist? Nah. "Genre" is to "music" as "medium" is to "painting." What would you do if you were drinking beer and shooting pool with your friends, and an epic power ballad about our Blessed Mother crushing the head of the devil came on the radio? If it were me, I'd raise my glass.  
Cheers!
*Please note, this opinion applies to casual consumption of music. Music for sacred worship and intentions is a different animal.*

A song as most people would define it is simply poetry put to music. Some of it is good poetry. Some of it is very, very bad. The author can write it in a way where the message is very obvious. It can also be ambiguous, where the meaning a listener perceives is more of a projection of their personality and worldview. I'll never forget the time our high school invited a famous poet to read and discuss some of his work. We studied one poem in class to prepare for his visit, and our English Literature teacher analyzed it until she wrung out every possible psychosexual, subconscious meaning. (Public high school English Lit is a trip, let me tell ya.) When we got to meet him and ask him about the meaning of that poem, he just smiled and said it had no real intended meaning. He just thought it was a pleasant picture to paint in the imagination.
  LOL LOL LOL Fish-Eater Smackdown

I think the problem is that waaaaaayyyy to many people "listen" to music without actually listening. I am always surprised at how popular Leonard Cohen's song "Hallelujah" at Christian funerals, considering how it's full of despair and doubt in God. Unless these people wanted to go out shaking their fist at the sky and questioning God, idk. On the other hand, there is a song by Creed called "Arms Wide Open" that is solidly in the rock genre, yet I found it to be an honest, beautiful affirmation of fatherhood and a desire to raise up a child. It's refreshing and surprising considering the prevailing cultural attitudes toward creating life and raising kids. I heard it for the first time in a long time when I was pregnant with my oldest, and it made me cry because it brought to mind the amazing way my husband was changing and growing to be a father.

So pay attention to the lyrics of what you're listening to. Observe the fruits of listening to certain artists/genres in your life- if you find yourself angrier, more depressed, more doubtful, listen to something else. Try to fill your mind and ears with beautiful things that make you laugh, contemplate, wonder (or cry a little, if you're an Irish melancholic like me Big Grin). If your scruples won't leave you alone, there are plenty of instrumental versions of popular songs out there, and many different genres of instrumental music in general out there to suit your tastes. We live at a time where technology gives us many options of what we have available to listen to and how we listen to it. I'm sure you could even find some instruments-only rock music somewhere.
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#6
All rock music is very sinful especially metal and protestant rock music is filled with heresies.

The only music one should listen to is Chant and Polyphony instead of rap music and rock and roll

Also pop music can be very dangerous since it can lead to lustful desires 

Classical music also a great from of music
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#7
(11-28-2017, 09:43 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: All rock music is very sinful especially metal and protestant rock music is filled with heresies.

The only music one should listen to is Chant and Polyphony instead of rap music and rock and roll.

Also pop music can be very dangerous since it can lead to lustful desires.

Classical music is also a great form of music.

No, sir, there are other forms of music one can listen to other than just Chant and Polyphony. You are only expressing your own personal opinion. It can't be a universal standard.

I also note you mention Classical music is great but yet one should only listen to Chant and Polyphony. How can Classical be great if one shouldn't listen to it? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

There is American Folk Music, Bluegrass Music, Folk Music from other nations, Opera -- both Western and Chinese (full disclosure: I'd exclude Wagner for his anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish sentiments and stances), Ragtime, the American Songbook, Classical tunes from folks like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Palestrina, Monteverdi and so on. Even Medieval tunes from the various areas of Christendom. None of them are pop or rock music, right?

Let's not overreact when standing firm against the rot of so much of popular culture. We are to recapture the arts for Christ the King and His Church, not run away from them.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." - G. K. Chesterton
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#8
(11-28-2017, 11:05 PM)HailGilbert Wrote:
(11-28-2017, 09:43 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: All rock music is very sinful especially metal and protestant rock music is filled with heresies.

The only music one should listen to is Chant and Polyphony instead of rap music and rock and roll.

Also pop music can be very dangerous since it can lead to lustful desires.

Classical music is also a great form of music.

No, sir, there are other forms of music one can listen to other than just Chant and Polyphony. You are only expressing your own personal opinion. It can't be a universal standard.

I also note you mention Classical music is great but yet one should only listen to Chant and Polyphony. How can Classical be great if one shouldn't listen to it? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

There is American Folk Music, Bluegrass Music, Folk Music from other nations, Opera -- both Western and Chinese (full disclosure: I'd exclude Wagner for his anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish sentiments and stances), Ragtime, the American Songbook, Classical tunes from folks like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Palestrina, Monteverdi and so on. Even Medieval tunes from the various areas of Christendom. None of them are pop or rock music, right?

Let's not overreact when standing firm against the rot of so much of popular culture. We are to recapture the arts for Christ the King and His Church, not run away from them.
Yes your correct I enjoy classical music as well.

But how can we reclaim the arts for Christ and His Church when social norms have completely given in to secularism and modernism.

 I feel that as Traditional Catholics we should be very careful with television and other forms of entertainment since they can  easily pull us away from the Church and Christ.

How can I make sure not to overreact to our sinful culture
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#9
(11-29-2017, 01:08 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(11-28-2017, 11:05 PM)HailGilbert Wrote:
(11-28-2017, 09:43 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: All rock music is very sinful especially metal and protestant rock music is filled with heresies.

The only music one should listen to is Chant and Polyphony instead of rap music and rock and roll.

Also pop music can be very dangerous since it can lead to lustful desires.

Classical music is also a great form of music.

No, sir, there are other forms of music one can listen to other than just Chant and Polyphony. You are only expressing your own personal opinion. It can't be a universal standard.

I also note you mention Classical music is great but yet one should only listen to Chant and Polyphony. How can Classical be great if one shouldn't listen to it? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

There is American Folk Music, Bluegrass Music, Folk Music from other nations, Opera -- both Western and Chinese (full disclosure: I'd exclude Wagner for his anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish sentiments and stances), Ragtime, the American Songbook, Classical tunes from folks like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Palestrina, Monteverdi and so on. Even Medieval tunes from the various areas of Christendom. None of them are pop or rock music, right?

Let's not overreact when standing firm against the rot of so much of popular culture. We are to recapture the arts for Christ the King and His Church, not run away from them.
Yes your correct I enjoy classical music as well.

But how can we reclaim the arts for Christ and His Church when social norms have completely given in to secularism and modernism.

 I feel that as Traditional Catholics we should be very careful with television and other forms of entertainment since they can  easily pull us away from the Church and Christ.

How can I make sure not to overreact to our sinful culture

To reclaim the arts, I would suggest 2 things. Firstly, create your own music! If there is a shortage of good, wholesome artists, become one. So many good Catholics are bothered by what is happening in popular entertainment, but there are so few who are willing to wade out against the tide and make something beautiful to stand against the ugliness. And when you do create, do it with a prayer in your heart for all who might hear or see.

Secondly, if you can't create good art/music, use the power of your pocketbook. If a musician has one song that you enjoy and is good, buy that one, and pass over others in their collection that are not so good. You can't pressure popular culture to change by revenue if you avoid it all together.

As for trying to not to overreact, I'll repeat what I said in my previous reply. Discernment is important. I agree that there is a LOT of bad stuff out there, and that we cannot consume entertainment without carefully considering what we are seeing and hearing. However, you are not discerning anything if you completely run away from it. Even if you engage everything you come across and discern that it is a near occasion of sin for you, you will have gained a knowledge of what exactly is wrong with it and how to counter it thoughtfully. And remember: what might be a near occasion of sin for you might not be such for the next person.

If you want an example, consider St. Ephraim. In his time, the Gnostics were producing all kinds of theatrical and musical works promoting their ideas. St. Ephraim could have just ignored all their songs because they contained heresy. Instead, he listened, carefully considered their errors, and composed parodies to refute them. He was a prolific writer, and not only used his talents to refute heresy, but also to celebrate what is holy and good and true.

However, if you genuinely love chant, polyphonic, and classical music, and that is the only type of music that fits your tastes, I will not knock you for it.
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#10
Polyphony and chant were typically restricted to only being heard in churches and religious communities. The average person has never heard such music in their daily lives previously. Of course there were religious hymns of various types that people would probably sing, but also secular music.

Anyway, over the years I've moved further and further away from hard rock. I hardly listen to it these days. Once in a while I get into the mood for it, but it's short lived. I find country to be a bit more palatable, although lots of the mainstream stuff isn't much better than what's on standard pop radio. 

We're certainly a culture that due to technology can pump our ears full of music on a non-stop basis. It's all I see whenever I go anywhere, people with headphones in their ears. Can't walk, drive, commute, work out, do work, etc. without music pumping. Maybe instead of worrying about the kind of music that we're listening to, we should stop listening to music so much and allow ourselves to sit in silence.
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“It is my design to die in the brew house; let ale be placed in my mouth when I am expiring, that when the choirs of angels come, they may say, “Be God propitious to this drinker.” – St. Columbanus, A.D. 612

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