Pope Seeks to Change the "Lord's Prayer"
#21
(12-09-2017, 06:17 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Well...at least the Protestants who have no intention of converting are happy about this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/0...pting.html


While I am willing to accept a better translation, it's just the fact it's coming from this man that makes me so unwilling and skeptical.  I sadly just do not trust this man.
Peace.....I read some time ago that there are only 3,000 words in the Aramaic language and that one word or phrase could have several meanings depending on the context.  (I don't think people then talked as often as us).....anyhow, I have lost some trust also, but not in God!  I wonder if Pope F can change any of the 10 Commandments such as Thou shalt not commit adultery - since the topic of Adultery is on the table these days.  I hope he stops this soon!  angeltime
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#22
(12-09-2017, 06:30 AM)angeltime Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:17 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Well...at least the Protestants who have no intention of converting are happy about this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/0...pting.html


While I am willing to accept a better translation, it's just the fact it's coming from this man that makes me so unwilling and skeptical.  I sadly just do not trust this man.
Peace.....I read some time ago that there are only 3,000 words in the Aramaic language and that one word or phrase could have several meanings depending on the context.  (I don't think people then talked as often as us).....anyhow, I have lost some trust also, but not in God!  I wonder if Pope F can change any of the 10 Commandments such as Thou shalt not commit adultery - since the topic of Adultery is on the table these days.  I hope he stops this soon!  angeltime
Why are we being so paranoid about the Papacy of Pope Francis since we really should be praying more for him than worrying about it.

Just because the eastern orthodox claim that their litgury is still intact doesn't mean that they are without problems
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#23
(12-09-2017, 10:59 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:30 AM)angeltime Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:17 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Well...at least the Protestants who have no intention of converting are happy about this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/0...pting.html


While I am willing to accept a better translation, it's just the fact it's coming from this man that makes me so unwilling and skeptical.  I sadly just do not trust this man.
Peace.....I read some time ago that there are only 3,000 words in the Aramaic language and that one word or phrase could have several meanings depending on the context.  (I don't think people then talked as often as us).....anyhow, I have lost some trust also, but not in God!  I wonder if Pope F can change any of the 10 Commandments such as Thou shalt not commit adultery - since the topic of Adultery is on the table these days.  I hope he stops this soon!  angeltime
Why are we being so paranoid about the Papacy of Pope Francis since we really should be praying more for him than worrying about it.

Just because the eastern orthodox claim that their litgury is still intact doesn't mean that they are without problems
We need to  remember that there is very little we can do about the Holy Father Francis since the Church is a monarchy established by Christ.

That doesn't mean that we have to agree with everything he does but we must always respect His Office
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#24
(12-09-2017, 11:11 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 10:59 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:30 AM)angeltime Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:17 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Well...at least the Protestants who have no intention of converting are happy about this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/0...pting.html


While I am willing to accept a better translation, it's just the fact it's coming from this man that makes me so unwilling and skeptical.  I sadly just do not trust this man.
Peace.....I read some time ago that there are only 3,000 words in the Aramaic language and that one word or phrase could have several meanings depending on the context.  (I don't think people then talked as often as us).....anyhow, I have lost some trust also, but not in God!  I wonder if Pope F can change any of the 10 Commandments such as Thou shalt not commit adultery - since the topic of Adultery is on the table these days.  I hope he stops this soon!  angeltime
Why are we being so paranoid about the Papacy of Pope Francis since we really should be praying more for him than worrying about it.

Just because the eastern orthodox claim that their litgury is still intact doesn't mean that they are without problems
We need to  remember that there is very little we can do about the Holy Father Francis since the Church is a monarchy established by Christ.

That doesn't mean that we have to agree with everything he does but we must always respect His Office

Peace.....as the people of the Church and God's children, we are of course concerned about what is happening.  I think this would include prayers and yes there are probs in every pew of every kind of Church and community.  This is part of the human condition and reality of this life.  At the very least, the whole thing is helping us to see ourselves in soul-searching, making good decisions for future and just plain getting educated.   God bless, angeltime :church:
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#25
(12-09-2017, 11:11 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 10:59 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:30 AM)angeltime Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 06:17 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Well...at least the Protestants who have no intention of converting are happy about this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/0...pting.html


While I am willing to accept a better translation, it's just the fact it's coming from this man that makes me so unwilling and skeptical.  I sadly just do not trust this man.
Peace.....I read some time ago that there are only 3,000 words in the Aramaic language and that one word or phrase could have several meanings depending on the context.  (I don't think people then talked as often as us).....anyhow, I have lost some trust also, but not in God!  I wonder if Pope F can change any of the 10 Commandments such as Thou shalt not commit adultery - since the topic of Adultery is on the table these days.  I hope he stops this soon!  angeltime
Why are we being so paranoid about the Papacy of Pope Francis since we really should be praying more for him than worrying about it.

Just because the eastern orthodox claim that their litgury is still intact doesn't mean that they are without problems
We need to  remember that there is very little we can do about the Holy Father Francis since the Church is a monarchy established by Christ.

That doesn't mean that we have to agree with everything he does but we must always respect His Office
I respect the office, but don't expect me to not voice my concerns or have my disagreements.

Even in a monarchies, the lowliest serf has the right to criticise his king, if the king is committing acts worthy of criticism. It doesn't mean it will make a difference, nor will the king care, since bad kings are often tyrants, and tyrants care little about those whom they are supposed to serve. Yet the groanings of the peasants will surely be heard by the princes and lords of the land as a warning to the next king who dare seeks to follow in the tyrant's footsteps.

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#26
Sorry, something went wrong with the quotes:

[quote pid='1358050' dateline='1512831563']
Trad Catholic27

We need to  remember that there is very little we can do about the Holy Father Francis since the Church is a monarchy established by Christ.

That doesn't mean that we have to agree with everything he does but we must always respect His Office


[/quote]

OK, this is off topic but here is where I get confused and start to lose it.  There are many references to the Church's structure as a Monarchy.  Perhaps it is.  But who exactly is the Monarch?

"He [Christ] is head of the body, the church." Col. 1:18

"I will (future tense) give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven."  Mat. 16:18 (When did this take place?  When did Jesus give those keys to Peter?  John 20:23?  Acts 2:4?)  

Many theologians believe that Christ's reference to the keys is to Isiah 22:22.  Isiah described the Lord's servant Eliakim who was to be a steward of the house of David.  But he was not the king or the monarch.  Moreover, Eliakim replaced an evil official, Shebna.  That analogy is somewhat uncomfortable to think that Peter is replacing Christ because Christ can't do the job.

Moreover, Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world."  Yet the Roman Church's teaching is that the Church is a spiritual kingdom and a temporal kingdom.  

Also, Christ says that the one who wants to be greatest should be the least.  That doesn't square with Bishops and Popes who live in palaces and have chauffeurs.  

So in all of these teachings, I don't see that Christ established a Monarchy except perhaps a Monarchy of which He alone is the King, and one which is not of this world.  That leaves Peter as a good steward - not a dictator.  Yet throughout history, we see the accretion of temporal power in the hands of the papacy to the point now, the Catechism boldly proclaims that the Pope (Vicar of Christ - which means literally "in the place of Christ") is the head of the universal church (CCC 883).  So which is the truth?  Col. 1:18 or CCC 883?  Who is the true head of the Church?  There seems to be a conflict.  I know some say that the Pope is just there because Christ is in heaven.  But Christ promised to be with us until the end of the world... "where two or three are gathered in my name".. etc.

Finally, CCC 882 states that the Pope has full, supreme and universal power over the whole Church and that the Pope is the "foundation of unity".  If that is true and it is also true that Christ is the head of the Church (as stated in Col. 1:18) then the plain teaching of the Roman Church is that the Pope has full, supreme and universal power over Christ because Christ is the head and thus also a part of the Church.  The whole Church means just that, the whole Church.  (Other paragraphs of the CCC talk about the Church Militant, Triumphant, Suffering but this specifically says the WHOLE Church.) Thus this teaching means that the Pope has authority over St. Peter himself and all the saints, even Mary.  That is where my mind can't go.  The Pope simply does not have authority over Christ, Mary and the Saints.

Then as I contemplate "foundation of unity" that is where I end up back in my Protestant days in my mind not being able to grasp that we are somehow called to be "one in the Pope" when scripture clearly states "we being many form one body in Christ" Rom. 12:5.  Are we one in the Pope or are we one in Christ? Is Christ our King or is the Pope our King?
Mater Dei, Ora pro nobis.
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#27
Take a look at the article I posted from The Remnant a few minutes ago,
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
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My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
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#28
http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2017...s-our.html

Fr. Hunwicke's take on this.
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"
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#29
http://marymagdalen.blogspot.co.uk/2017/...on-of.html

And Fr. Ray Blake.  
  Perhaps the English edition of "The Dictator Pope" is leading to more bravery on the part of our dear Priests to speak out. I hope so anyway!
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"
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#30
[Image: Akin-OURFATHER.jpg]
James Tissot, “The Lord’s Prayer”, ca. 1890


BLOGS  |  DEC. 11, 2017
No, Pope Francis Is Not Changing the Lord’s Prayer
This is a classic case of the pope saying something and the media distorting it.

Jimmy Akin

"Newspapers and websites erupted over the weekend with headlines like:



Shame on all of them.
The pope didn’t call for any changes.
This is a classic case of the pope saying something and the media going hog-wild and completely distorting it."




More here: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-aki...rds-prayer
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