The Remnants Take On Francis' Attempt to Change Scripture
#1
I think, if you check, the reason that Galileo was excommunicated was not  that he believed in heliocentism (so had Copernicus, with no consequences), but that he wanted to change the Holy Scriptures to fit his beliefs. Sound familiar?

Pope Francis: The Our Father "Induces Temptation"

Another take on Francis' attempt at rewriting the words of Our Blessed Lord.

From The Remnant. (My emphasis)


Pope Francis has said that the Lord's Prayer should be changed, arguing that the translation used in many parts of the world, including the Italian and English versions, go against the teachings of the Church and Bible.
In the centuries-old recited prayer, followers of the Christian Faith call on God to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
Speaking to Italian broadcasters on December 7, Francis argued this was incorrect, saying, "It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation."
To think that the Messiah's instruction to mankind on how to pray—as penned by the evangelists as the infallible Word of God and as followed for 2000 years by all the saints and members of Christ—is now incorrect. By this latest stunt, it is the pope who is leading us into temptation.
Francis purports to criticize the English and Italian translations of the Our Father, when he knows very well that it is the original manuscript he is criticizing. The original text from the Lord's Prayer, as taken from the Latin Vulgate, reads, "et ne inducas nos in temptationem sed libera nos a malo," which translated is, "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." (Matthew 6:13)
Hence this is not a translation issue, but a scriptural issue. The English translations of the Our Father as recited today are correct, because they are taken from the Vulgate, which is the official version of Holy Scripture—the source from which all authentic translations must directly or indirectly be taken.
Even so, Francis thinks that the Our Father should be changed, and during his interview with the TV2000 channel, he even said he has approved a modified version in France.
Christ's instruction should be simple enough to understand. When we say, "lead us not into temptation," we're simply asking God to help us choose right from wrong, good from bad, God from Satan. It is God, our leader, who leads this enterprise, therefore we ask him to "lead us" thus. A seven-year-old CCD student can understand this perfectly, yet the leader of the world's Catholics can't seem to get it!
Thomas A. Kempis would tell him, "Consider thy motives." Francis is apparently upset over the idea of being led away from temptation, since he is led by the temptation of globalism and change. The Bible threatens him to give up his change, so instead of humbly admitting that scripture is correct, he judges that it is incorrect, in the same way he has denied the miracle of the loaves and has judged that evangelization is "solemn nonsense." http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-gives-new-interview
Nay, the mission of the Church is to convert all peoples to the Catholic Faith. God in his mercy wants us all to know that this world is not our common home, but rather a quagmire of temptation, and that our true home is in Heaven with God and the saints who said the unrevised Our Father.
Therefore, as children of God who obey the Father's commands, we take the Father's hand and ask him to lead us not into temptation, but away from all evil, because if we chase after temptation—especially the temptation to change the Bible and the doctrines of the Faith—God will let go of our hand, and in His permissive will, He will allow us not only to fall into temptation, but into the very fires of Hell. And by the way, Papa, condemnation is forever.
Christ warns of the dire consequences of changing but one word of Holy Scripture. He says to St. John in the Apocalypse, "If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book." (Apoc. 22:18)
Let us therefore reverence the words of Christ in the Gospel, remembering that all scripture is "inspired of God." (2 Timothy 3:16) "Neither let us tempt Christ: as some of them tempted, and perished by the serpents." (1 Cor. 10:9)
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
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My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
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#2
It's very disheartening.
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#3
(12-09-2017, 03:06 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: I think, if you check, the reason that Galileo was excommunicated was not  that he believed in heliocentism (so had Copernicus, with no consequences), but that he wanted to change the Holy Scriptures to fit his beliefs. Sound familiar?

Just a note to correct introduction here jovan.

Galileo was never excommunicated. Galileo did believe in heliocentrism. He lied at his trial, said he no longer held the heliocentric position so could not be excommunicated.

Yes, his mistake was trying to persuade others, including churchmen, to change their interpretation of the Scriptures as you say.

Copernicus was never at odds with the Church or the Scriptures because in his book De revolutionibus there was a preface saying his heliocentrism in the book was not as a TRUTH but only as for mathematical consideration.

As for Francis wanting to change the wording of the 'Our Father,' well he would be better off teaching the Catholic faith so that Catholics could understand these words as they were meant.
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#4
Why can't we ask God, "Please don't lead me into temptation."

Jesus said, "Pray that you are not put to the test."

God doesn't cause evil but permits it.  He allowed the saints to endure great temptations and dark nights of the soul in order to strengthen their faith and virtue.

My take has been that we are praying that He not allow us to be tempted beyond our strength.  It is an act of humility and a profession of our need for God's strength or we shall surely fall.
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#5
Oh, and as for Pope Francis' motives, I see this as a power grab.

It's all about incrementalism.

Of course, I may be wrong and I hope that I am and I pray every day for our dear pope.
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#6
"The original text from the Lord's Prayer, as taken from the Latin Vulgate."

Yeah the Vulgate is not the 'original,' nor is it even the original Latin translation. The Vulgate contains no errors in faith or morals, as confirmed by the magisterium. But it is not perfect, no translation is going to be perfect. Not that I'm all for what Francis is doing, but there are some things we pray that are not very faithful to the original, do you really think "as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end" is a great translation of "Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum?" Changing these things requires ALOT of prudence, and it's usually a good idea to keep things the same unless there is a manifest problem, which I don't think there is.

Changing the way people pray the Our Father is certainly a bad decision, but it's not scandalous to suggest that a translation made in a different linguistic context, that itself was twice removed from the original language could have some imperfections.
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#7
(12-09-2017, 05:18 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: Of course, I may be wrong and I hope that I am and I pray every day for our dear pope.

"Dear" pope? That's like referring to robbers as "gentlemen." (seriously, how often do we hear something like, "Then the gentleman came into my shop, put a gun to my head, and demanded all the cash in the cash register"?)
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#8
(12-09-2017, 07:27 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 05:18 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: Of course, I may be wrong and I hope that I am and I pray every day for our dear pope.

"Dear" pope? That's like referring to robbers as "gentlemen." (seriously, how often do we hear something like, "Then the gentleman came into my shop, put a gun to my head, and demanded all the cash in the cash register"?)

Spot on, Vox! I pray for him everyday, begging God that he may return to the Catholic Faith, but 'dear' Pope? Nope!
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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#9
(12-09-2017, 07:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 07:27 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote:
(12-09-2017, 05:18 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: Of course, I may be wrong and I hope that I am and I pray every day for our dear pope.

"Dear" pope? That's like referring to robbers as "gentlemen." (seriously, how often do we hear something like, "Then the gentleman came into my shop, put a gun to my head, and demanded all the cash in the cash register"?)

Spot on, Vox! I pray for him everyday, begging God that he may return to the Catholic Faith, but 'dear' Pope? Nope!

Every soul is "dear" to Our Lord.  

I offer up all of my sufferings for those who are in danger of the fires of Hell, and I'm afraid he may be one of them.
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#10
(12-09-2017, 03:06 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: I think, if you check, the reason that Galileo was excommunicated was not  that he believed in heliocentism (so had Copernicus, with no consequences), but that he wanted to change the Holy Scriptures to fit his beliefs. Sound familiar?

Pope Francis: The Our Father "Induces Temptation"

Another take on Francis' attempt at rewriting the words of Our Blessed Lord.

From The Remnant. (My emphasis)


Pope Francis has said that the Lord's Prayer should be changed, arguing that the translation used in many parts of the world, including the Italian and English versions, go against the teachings of the Church and Bible.
In the centuries-old recited prayer, followers of the Christian Faith call on God to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
Speaking to Italian broadcasters on December 7, Francis argued this was incorrect, saying, "It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation."
To think that the Messiah's instruction to mankind on how to pray—as penned by the evangelists as the infallible Word of God and as followed for 2000 years by all the saints and members of Christ—is now incorrect. By this latest stunt, it is the pope who is leading us into temptation.
Francis purports to criticize the English and Italian translations of the Our Father, when he knows very well that it is the original manuscript he is criticizing. The original text from the Lord's Prayer, as taken from the Latin Vulgate, reads, "et ne inducas nos in temptationem sed libera nos a malo," which translated is, "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." (Matthew 6:13)
Hence this is not a translation issue, but a scriptural issue. The English translations of the Our Father as recited today are correct, because they are taken from the Vulgate, which is the official version of Holy Scripture—the source from which all authentic translations must directly or indirectly be taken.
Even so, Francis thinks that the Our Father should be changed, and during his interview with the TV2000 channel, he even said he has approved a modified version in France.
Christ's instruction should be simple enough to understand. When we say, "lead us not into temptation," we're simply asking God to help us choose right from wrong, good from bad, God from Satan. It is God, our leader, who leads this enterprise, therefore we ask him to "lead us" thus. A seven-year-old CCD student can understand this perfectly, yet the leader of the world's Catholics can't seem to get it!
Thomas A. Kempis would tell him, "Consider thy motives." Francis is apparently upset over the idea of being led away from temptation, since he is led by the temptation of globalism and change. The Bible threatens him to give up his change, so instead of humbly admitting that scripture is correct, he judges that it is incorrect, in the same way he has denied the miracle of the loaves and has judged that evangelization is "solemn nonsense." http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-gives-new-interview
Nay, the mission of the Church is to convert all peoples to the Catholic Faith. God in his mercy wants us all to know that this world is not our common home, but rather a quagmire of temptation, and that our true home is in Heaven with God and the saints who said the unrevised Our Father.
Therefore, as children of God who obey the Father's commands, we take the Father's hand and ask him to lead us not into temptation, but away from all evil, because if we chase after temptation—especially the temptation to change the Bible and the doctrines of the Faith—God will let go of our hand, and in His permissive will, He will allow us not only to fall into temptation, but into the very fires of Hell. And by the way, Papa, condemnation is forever.
Christ warns of the dire consequences of changing but one word of Holy Scripture. He says to St. John in the Apocalypse, "If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book." (Apoc. 22:18)
Let us therefore reverence the words of Christ in the Gospel, remembering that all scripture is "inspired of God." (2 Timothy 3:16) "Neither let us tempt Christ: as some of them tempted, and perished by the serpents." (1 Cor. 10:9)

Peace....."Inducas" or Induce I think means to cause, or show us - which is not really the same as "lead" (by the hand) as we know it - but that we are asking God not to test us by means of temptation, but to deliver us from that temptation.....by the Pope changing the words for France at this time, also can create a division over who is following the correct interpretation or not - like splitting hairs, but still causing division.  ?  Changes should be done across the board, not here and there - not that I agree with this change, but again the procedure is questionable.  angeltime
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