Theologians should be 'faithful and anchored' to the teachings of the Second Vatican
#11
(12-30-2017, 07:23 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 07:16 PM)Florus Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 06:43 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 06:40 PM)FultonFan Wrote: I get a headache at the thought of Vatican 2.

I think it's a matter of time before the traditional wing of the Vatican says "OK, that's enough", and finally realizes that V2 HAS given us a new religion.

That's nonsense because God will restore the TLM and the Church leadership will change their minds when the young priests replace our current leadership

Well that's wonderfully optimistic....
Being pessimistic about the future is very dangerous we need to trust in God

OK fair enough.

However, let me ask this: what good came from V2?
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#12
(12-30-2017, 08:09 PM)FultonFan Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 07:23 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 07:16 PM)Florus Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 06:43 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 06:40 PM)FultonFan Wrote: I get a headache at the thought of Vatican 2.

I think it's a matter of time before the traditional wing of the Vatican says "OK, that's enough", and finally realizes that V2 HAS given us a new religion.

That's nonsense because God will restore the TLM and the Church leadership will change their minds when the young priests replace our current leadership

Well that's wonderfully optimistic....
Being pessimistic about the future is very dangerous we need to trust in God

OK fair enough.

However, let me ask this: what good came from V2?
V2 hasn't even been properly implemented in most parishes today. Imagine the change if people read Sacrosanctum Concilium and made changes to music, musical instruments, hymn selection, etc accordingly.
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#13
(12-30-2017, 08:10 PM)In His Love Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 08:09 PM)FultonFan Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 07:23 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 07:16 PM)Florus Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 06:43 PM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 06:40 PM)FultonFan Wrote: I get a headache at the thought of Vatican 2.

I think it's a matter of time before the traditional wing of the Vatican says "OK, that's enough", and finally realizes that V2 HAS given us a new religion.

That's nonsense because God will restore the TLM and the Church leadership will change their minds when the young priests replace our current leadership

Well that's wonderfully optimistic....
Being pessimistic about the future is very dangerous we need to trust in God

OK fair enough.

However, let me ask this: what good came from V2?
V2 hasn't even been implemented in most parishes today.

Right only the modernist distortion of the Vatican II documents
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#14
(12-30-2017, 06:13 PM)In His Love Wrote: A lot of problems would be solved if we got back to what the Council actually teaches instead of what progressives have told people it teaches.

Whether fault lies with Vatican ll or the Spirit of Vatican ll, as implemented by post council progressives, I am not sure that  distinction matters any longer.  

As his holiness Pope Benedict XVI found out, Things have just not remained static since 1968, with the liturgy, the sacramental rites, the new Code of Canon Law, updates to the catchecism, and notwithstanding any further novelty or creative interpretation of doctrine. It’s too far gone.

Will Restoration be as simple as waiting out the current hierarchy? I am not so certain on that either.  Not until the triumph of the Immaculate Heart.
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#15
The real question is what is the purpose of VII if not ambiguity which leads to revolution? What is it that we as traditional Catholics should take away from VII that wasn't previously already believed as part of the deposit of Faith? 

I think anyone who wishes to salvage VII as something more than a pastoral council for the time that was highjacked into a revolution needs to really sit down and figure it out. If I were to go back to 1955, what would VII actually add to the Catholic Faith?
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#16
(12-30-2017, 10:26 PM)GangGreen Wrote: The real question is what is the purpose of VII if not ambiguity which leads to revolution? What is it that we as traditional Catholics should take away from VII that wasn't previously already believed as part of the deposit of Faith? 

I think anyone who wishes to salvage VII as something more than a pastoral council for the time that was highjacked into a revolution needs to really sit down and figure it out. If I were to go back to 1955, what would VII actually add to the Catholic Faith?

Confusion, and lax morality amongst the laity.
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#17
(12-30-2017, 10:38 PM)FultonFan Wrote:
(12-30-2017, 10:26 PM)GangGreen Wrote: The real question is what is the purpose of VII if not ambiguity which leads to revolution? What is it that we as traditional Catholics should take away from VII that wasn't previously already believed as part of the deposit of Faith? 

I think anyone who wishes to salvage VII as something more than a pastoral council for the time that was highjacked into a revolution needs to really sit down and figure it out. If I were to go back to 1955, what would VII actually add to the Catholic Faith?

Confusion, and lax morality amongst the laity.

That would be subtraction
Blood of Christ, relief of the burdened, save us.

“It is my design to die in the brew house; let ale be placed in my mouth when I am expiring, that when the choirs of angels come, they may say, “Be God propitious to this drinker.” – St. Columbanus, A.D. 612
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#18
I will repeat here what I've said in other threads. The intention of the progressives at the Council and of many of the periti who developed the 'Spirit of Vatican II' was to introduce the Trotskyite communist concept of 'permanent revolution' into the Church. Change, change, and more change, in translations, law, etc., until the Faithful can no longer recognise the Faith.
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#19
Well I agree with Trad Catholic 27.

Most of the most orthodox catholics I've met have been under their mid 30s. Given that they don't know much about tradition because its been buried under all the sewage.
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#20
(12-30-2017, 06:13 PM)In His Love Wrote: I've been reading the book Noble Beauty, Transcendent Holiness (see my signature for an excerpt) and I think this is a good idea.

Certain people, as well as the Council, have been blamed for what we see nowadays. The problem actually goes much farther back. 

I recommend watching these for a background:




If theologians were rooted in the Council, they would support the use of Latin in the liturgy, pride of place given to the organ and Gregorian chant, etc. The Council didn't call for Communion in the hand (that started as a specific indult to combat liturgical abuse and then spread), guitars, liturgical dance, or anything of the sort.

A lot of problems would be solved if we got back to what the Council actually teaches instead of what progressives have told people it teaches.
Pax et Bonum!  Thankyou for sharing the videos and they are quite informative.  It really was disappointing to see the change in the parishes - they were stripped.  I have always seen and felt that the various religious items (sacramental) in a parish were an aid to focusing while in prayer and also draw one into more contemplation.  It sounds as though none of these people from the past and now into the present, do any contemplation.  They have achieved their goal of "social" and that should really take place after Mass, not during.  One thing I would have liked to see included in the videos, is how the prayers of the Mass or certain Sacramental Rites have been shortened, eliminated or have weak wording so as not be effective as the previous prayers used.  If one reads the former prayers used and the current prayers used, they will see how they can be evasive or skimming over the Rite.  THIS I have a huge problem with - messing with the words!  This, in my opinion has disturbed the Liturgy and is why we have people saying, "I'm not being fed" or "It is dry" or "It is watered-down."  etc.....They are tampered with and now tainted.  From this, Religious Communities modernized their Rules of Life and Constitutions and are also weakened having lost vocations - because they practically threw out the founder and the charism - just skimming over the leftovers!  We do need to return to the original Mass, Jesus and the Apostles teachings - the Gospels - Scriptures - Early Church Fathers, and bring back our Parishes with the Stations, Crucifixes, Candles and more.  God bless, angeltime :incense:
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