Anyone a question for an ex-mink farmer?
(01-12-2018, 06:38 PM)Melkite Wrote: The other big problem this poses for me is the concept of death in the context of original sin.  You are saying that mink are designed to kill, and nothing but.  If this is a part of their design, then it is logically impossible that death is something outside of God's design that entered the world because of Adam's sin.  I wasn't aware that there were species whose sole purpose was to cull the population of other species and keep things in order that way.  However, your understanding of the existential purpose of mink as a species fits in very well with an atheistic evolutionary biological understanding of the world.  I repeatedly see things like this that indicates to me that [ANIMAL] death is a natural, intended part of the order of our world, not a discrepancy that was thrust into it after the fact.  Did this occur to you, and if so, how are you able to reconcile that with your faith?

Another marvellous post Melkite, one I agree 100% with regarding animals. I have of course pondered on for years, questions that the Catholic Church, to my knowledge, has never elaborated on. Indeed have you ever seen these questions discussed on a Catholic forum?

As you saw my thinking on these matters is dominated by my Catholic Faith, the ultimate road to the truth of any human experience. 'God can be known from the things that are made' is the first dogma in Ott's book on Catholic dogmas. Only when I began to study the origins of time, the universe, the Earth and its creatures recorded in Genesis did I realise that this dogma is so true that Satan had to blind the human race to it. God created the Earth capable of sustaining the human race in perpetuity. Everything that we humans use and make, all comes from the Earth. God created every creature with a purpose, some living off the land and sea, others to control their populations to keep a balance. There is not a day goes by but we see another film that shows us the complexity in design and behaviour that is perfection for the purpose it serves. That is intelligence and not chance.

My answer to evolutionists is that it is all or nothing to have the Earth that we have. The idea that anything evolved from a cell is simple nonsense. For anything to survive it is all or nothing. You cannot have a living thing without ALL the bits that are needed to keep the other bits working. Thus things had to be created WHOLE, according to their kinds as Genesis states clearly.

But, as you say, there was supposed to be no death before Adam and Eve. Some creationists claim all creatures lived off plantlife, on land and in the sea. Did I say 'plantlife?' yes, plants live, so is their consumption 'killing' plantlife. Yet, the DAY before Adam and Eve were created Genesis tells us 'beasts' of the Earth were created, 'all according to their kind.' Well there are probably as many kinds of predators (beasts) than plant eaters on Earth. Very few could survive on plantlife, so the theory that these were once plant living creatures that survived as they evolved into meat-eating and digesting kinds that lived off insects or fish or animals of every kind is intellectually impossible. That would need a second creation and Genesis said it was finished after the sixth day.

It is my conclusion that the death that Adam and Eve brought into the world was that of mankind alone. The word 'death' then associated with Original Sin cannot be applied to animals, fish or insects. Consequently my belief that animals cannot be aware of death in the same way as humans. I have had the very sad task of taking a long time pet dog that had lost the use of its legs to a vet to be put down. I cried as it was happening, a human understanding of death. The dog thank God did not know or understand it was being put down or it would have resisted. It did not. God gave all animals a nature sufficient for their survival, no more. Some catch others to kill them, the victims run to avoid being cought. That is it, neither ponders on death itself, that is reserved to mankind. Ever see a heard of antelope after one of them is caught by a lion? They simply continue to graze as though nothing happened, all in a day-in-the-life-of-an-antelope on the plains.

How animals are killed is a different question. As human beings we must insure it is done in a way that is not cruel. God gave us reason, we know whast is cruel, a lion does not. Remember Christ ordered fish to be caught, fish that would take some time to die out of water. Was that cruel? God ordered lambs to be slaughtered, were their deaths understood by the lambs? I reason no, absolutely not. An animal 'soul' is different, it ceases to be totally after death.

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RE: Anyone a question for an ex-mink farmer? - by cassini - 01-13-2018, 03:15 PM

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