Survive in a Novus Ordo parish inspite of having Traditional Catholic leanings...?
#21
(01-29-2018, 03:03 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: I do have the option of attending and becoming a member of the Syro - Malabar Church. ..

But yes, my parents and I are reluctant to be members due to the horrible abuse of powers within the hierarchy... The Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches are fraught with many gross scandals of moral, sexual and financial nature... So much that there are reports of many priests who extract money from parishioners, secure land deals illegally and run away to another remote parish where they're protected by their bishops... Till now I've heard of "runaway" brides but we've come to know about "runaway priests"... The current Patriarch who heads the Syro Malabar Church is himself involved in a land deal scam and there are calls by various groups for his resignation....

And again, why do you dismiss the SSPX?

If all of the clergy is so corrupt, why are you so worried about what they think?

(01-29-2018, 03:03 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: And for every sort of Sacrament to be performed - the priests are known for asking exorbitant amount of rupees... Which not all of us can afford... And the priests and religious are known for living a lavish, extravagant lifestyle...

The SSPX priests, as far as I know, receive Mass stipends of less than Rs 70,000 per year (half the average income in India), about US$1000. They run a school which charges Rs3000 per student per year (about US$45), but waive that fee for the poor. They live very spartanly. They do not require any fee for Sacraments.

Most of these willingly left the West and gave up what is a below poverty-line income of perhaps US$10,000 (Rs 630,000) for this abject poverty, for the good of souls.

Again, you complain about the problem, but you have one clear solution with priests who have given up everything to save souls in your country and then dismiss them and continue to whine on about the problems.

If you are unwilling to take the obvious solution, don't complain about the problems.
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#22
(01-29-2018, 06:55 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(01-29-2018, 03:03 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: I do have the option of attending and becoming a member of the Syro - Malabar Church. ..

But yes, my parents and I are reluctant to be members due to the horrible abuse of powers within the hierarchy... The Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches are fraught with many gross scandals of moral, sexual and financial nature... So much that there are reports of many priests who extract money from parishioners, secure land deals illegally and run away to another remote parish where they're protected by their bishops... Till now I've heard of "runaway" brides but we've come to know about "runaway priests"... The current Patriarch who heads the Syro Malabar Church is himself involved in a land deal scam and there are calls by various groups for his resignation....

And again, why do you dismiss the SSPX?

If all of the clergy is so corrupt, why are you so worried about what they think?

(01-29-2018, 03:03 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: And for every sort of Sacrament to be performed - the priests are known for asking exorbitant amount of rupees... Which not all of us can afford... And the priests and religious are known for living a lavish, extravagant lifestyle...

The SSPX priests, as far as I know, receive Mass stipends of less than Rs 70,000 per year (half the average income in India), about US$1000. They run a school which charges Rs3000 per student per year (about US$45), but waive that fee for the poor. They live very spartanly. They do not require any fee for Sacraments.

Most of these willingly left the West and gave up what is a below poverty-line income of perhaps US$10,000 (Rs 630,000) for this abject poverty, for the good of souls.

Again, you complain about the problem, but you have one clear solution with priests who have given up everything to save souls in your country and then dismiss them and continue to whine on about the problems.

If you are unwilling to take the obvious solution, don't complain about the problems.

Wow. I didn't know that about the SSPX priests over there! I will have to add them specifically to my prayer intentions going forward.
I am in the process of discerning my vocation with the help of my priest. If you would like to read my thoughts as I progress through this process of discernment feel free to visit my blog: https://walkingthelittleway.com
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#23
(01-22-2018, 04:02 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 03:36 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: I am a Roman Catholic from India and unfortunately, in our country all Traditional Catholic movements have been suppressed...

A good friend of mine is an SSPX priest in India, and tells me that they operate at 15 Mass centers throughout India, one of which is an orphanage and school, operated by sister who care for abandoned children and adults. Some only very occasionally have Mass, but I would hardly say that means that in India "all Traditional Catholic movements have been supressed."

There is Sunday Mass ever Sunday in : Chennai, Goa, Palayamkottai, Mumbai (both Malad and Vasai), Nagercoil, Singamparai, Christurajapuram, Trichy, and Tuticorin. That's eleven places to get a traditional Mass each Sunday throughout India.

Coonor gets two Masses on consecutive weekdays once a month. Bangalore gets an occasional Mass. Asaripalam get a Mass once a month on the first Sunday.

It certain may be possible you are nowhere near such sites, but there is a lively and active traditional movement in India.

I appreciate that you want "want to be a part of parish activities" and "feel a call to be a part of the various associations such as the 'Legionaries of Mary,' Catholic prayer groups, etc.," but to what end.

You mention that the SSPX faithful are actively persecuted by the hierarchy and clergy. Perhaps that's for a good reason, if they are as liberal and awful as you suggest.

So if you want the traditional Mass and Sacraments as much as it sounds you do, why not suffer what you need to suffer to get these?

What is it you are seeking out? Peace, ease? Parish activities? Tradition? The good of your soul?

(01-22-2018, 04:08 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 07:16 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: And yeah, though the clergy put a façade of being "open", "merciful", "considerate", etc., etc., we can't dare to antagonize them... The clergy has literally branded "Lefebrvists" as "lunatics"... And my Parish Priest is one of them...

He has made the lives of many Catholics involved with the SSPX miserable and disparaged them...

So, I don't have any option but to stick with my current parish else I would lose my religion....

You do have an option, you just don't want to take it.

If your parish priest is as terrible as you suggest, and calls good Catholic priests and faithful who are quite literally giving up everything to have the Faith (including apparently a good name), then perhaps it is not the SSPX you should be avoiding ...

It's just not about "losing the religion" factor.... I currently stay in a region far away from where the SSPX Mass Centers are located across India... And I don't have the money to fund my travel either by air or road from my savings...
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#24
(01-22-2018, 02:26 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: ...For almost 20 years I lived in a Parish that had been wreckovated by the Pastor, a hale and hearty, athletic sort who sat on his 'Presider's Throne' whilst laypeople (mostly women) distributed Holy Communion. I heard him preach on every left-wing SJW subject you can think of. One time I confessed immediately before Mass, and by Communion time, I was so angry at the abuses taking place that I could not receive.

So what did I do? I confessed regularly. I went to Mass every week, and daily if my schedule permitted it. I sat in the back pew and said my Rosary or recited my (1962) Breviary, trying not to look at the Altar except at the Elevations. I paid as little attention as possible to the heretical swill being spouted from the pulpit.

Hey, jovan66102...

Even I'm encountering the same situation as you stated above today... 

Since we're blessed by having the Internet and video-streaming technologies, I watch the LiveMass video streams from SSPX, FSSP and other TLM Centers as that helps me feel that I've attended a Real Tridentine Mass... I must credit all the LiveMass video streams and a variety of other electronic media-related factors to help me discover authentic Catholic Tradition... The Novus Ordo makes me feel something is amiss w.r.t. my Catholic Faith...

Thanks to DivinumOfficium, I've grasped the Ordo of the Mass and the images of those texts have sort of embedded in my memory... So, during the Novus Ordo in our parish, I try as far as possible to link the sequence and say the prayers w.r.t. 1962 Missal... And, during Holy Communion, since we have laypeople distributing Holy Communion in the pew area where I sit, I try as far as possible to break the line :D , although in a subtle manner in order to receive Holy Communion from a priest...

So, yeah... I wish our Catholic generation receive this grace of Traditional Catholicism ASAP...
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#25
(01-22-2018, 06:11 AM)Dave01 Wrote: Have you thought about organizing a group of like-minded people? I know the SSPX is active in India, and would probably respond to your request if you can gather a small group of interested persons.

(01-22-2018, 08:06 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Sadly you will need to offer your suffering up to God for the time being.  I would say that if you are in India (a land of a billion people), you sure that there is no way you can use the power of the Internet to find like-minded Indians and work together to form a TLM nearby or somewhere?

As of now, most Catholics in the current region where I stay attend Mass just because it is an obligation and they're more of the "Belieber" fans kind - SPIRITUAL BUT NOT RELIGIOUS... :-/ For them, as long as actions are good in themselves, they can be considered people of good standing and spiritual... That view has also permeated across Orthodox and Protestant Churches, too...

So, yeah... It would be like finding a needle in a haystack to find out a group of like-minded Traditional Catholics... As of now, I can just offer my suffering up to God...
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#26
(01-24-2018, 12:20 AM)maldon Wrote: Divine Office, Divine Office, Divine Office.
Adoration 
Rosary

The Church has had to survive through tremendous crises over the last 2000 years. Always remember that in such times, there were people who led lives of prayer, recited the divine office devoutly, went about their duties prayerfully, and in doing so day after day they gave life to the Church hierarchy, often corrupt, became saints, left us wonderful examples to follow, and generally saved the day as well as themselves. You can do this.

Yeah... That's the only option I have.... :)
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#27
(01-28-2018, 11:11 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 03:36 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote: ✟PAX DOMINUS VOBISCUM...! ✟

I am a Roman Catholic from India and unfortunately, in our country all Traditional Catholic movements have been suppressed... I stay next to a Catholic parish which is heavily steeped into the "Vatican II" ideals - liberalism, modernism, religious indifferentism, pagan infiltration into Church practices (considering the fact that India is a Hindu-majority country and in order to please the Hindus and fundamentalist groups - the clergy in India had come up with a Hinduized rite of Catholic Mass (now abrogated due to lack of interest)). To add to all the woes, "Catholics" in India don't seem to give a damn to Catholicism or  Catholic Traditions but, care a lot for ethnic and pagan traditions all of a sudden...!

At the same time, I feel a call to be a part of the various associations such as the "Legionaries of Mary", Catholic prayer groups, etc... Rest of the associations are more into feminism and social justice pressure groups who are more into criticizing our country's patriarchical male-dominant society, the incumbent government and Mr. Prime Minister (ad hominem attacks as to why he did not consummate his marriage, etc...?‍♂️) I'm not interested to be associated with such liberal pressure groups at all...

But yeah, I want to be a part of parish activities... But, no TLM, no Traditional-leaning Catholics, lack of frequent confessions available and Novus Ordo Masses full of distractions, combined with all the problems stated above is what describes our parish...

What should I do...? I'm getting frequent headaches thinking about this...

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

You have it bad, maybe worse than many (but not all) here because for you it involves not having the Latin Mass chapel in your area. But I'd venture to say that many (if not most?) feel a certain amount of isolation and trad-loneliness. Because even if we get to a traditional church on the weekend, the rest of the week might be spent removed from like minded people. At least that's my true in my case.The answer is to come back strong, pray harder, love your devotions, do what you can. I can attest to the power of the rosary and the scapular. Just do all you can to carry on. God will reward you in time and He will give you the graces to persevere.

Hi Jacafamala...! See the response below...

(01-30-2018, 04:21 AM)AndreasIosephus Wrote:
(01-22-2018, 06:11 AM)Dave01 Wrote: Have you thought about organizing a group of like-minded people? I know the SSPX is active in India, and would probably respond to your request if you can gather a small group of interested persons.

(01-22-2018, 08:06 AM)austenbosten Wrote: Sadly you will need to offer your suffering up to God for the time being.  I would say that if you are in India (a land of a billion people), you sure that there is no way you can use the power of the Internet to find like-minded Indians and work together to form a TLM nearby or somewhere?

As of now, most Catholics in the current region where I stay attend Mass just because it is an obligation and they're more of the "Belieber" fans kind - SPIRITUAL BUT NOT RELIGIOUS... :-/ For them, as long as actions are good in themselves, they can be considered people of good standing and spiritual... That view has also permeated across Orthodox and Protestant Churches, too...

So, yeah... It would be like finding a needle in a haystack to find out a group of like-minded Traditional Catholics... As of now, I can just offer my suffering up to God...
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#28
(01-26-2018, 07:15 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: Something to do while you're suffering in the pews:


[Image: NovusOrdoBingo.png]

[Image: laff.gif][Image: laff.gif][Image: laff.gif][Image: laff.gif][Image: laff.gif][Image: laff.gif][Image: laff.gif]

Barring the LGBTQ (since, India still follows the Victorian-era British Penal Code in the current Constitution and identifying yourself as LGBTQ is a crime and could land you in jail) and Clown, I can identify with all of the above, being in a Novus Ordo parish...!

Thanks, VoxClamantis for the meme...!  :D
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#29
(01-29-2018, 06:55 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: And again, why do you dismiss the SSPX?

If all of the clergy is so corrupt, why are you so worried about what they think?

The SSPX priests, as far as I know, receive Mass stipends of less than Rs 70,000 per year (half the average income in India), about US$1000. They run a school which charges Rs3000 per student per year (about US$45), but waive that fee for the poor. They live very spartanly. They do not require any fee for Sacraments.

Most of these willingly left the West and gave up what is a below poverty-line income of perhaps US$10,000 (Rs 630,000) for this abject poverty, for the good of souls.

Again, you complain about the problem, but you have one clear solution with priests who have given up everything to save souls in your country and then dismiss them and continue to whine on about the problems.

If you are unwilling to take the obvious solution, don't complain about the problems.

I must say, MagisterMusicae... You could be one of the best advocates as to why Catholics should join the SSPX and become Traditional Catholics...!!!  (Seriously... :))

Firstly, I've never dismissed the SSPX... I have immense respect for the entire Institution and for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre +RIP+

And I always pray that the SSPX comes out of that so-called "limbo" state w.r.t. its validity, gains acceptance in Rome and across the Catholic world and that the image of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre which was tarnished due to various character assassinations that were and going on against him, be restored in a positive light... 

But as I stated above... It's not just about "losing the religion" factor... It's just that I currently live in a region far away from their Mass Centers and cannot afford to travel by air or road due to my limited personal savings... :|

And I pray that I may get that opportunity to attend Mass at an SSPX Chapel at least once in my lifetime... :|

At the same, I feel that the SSPX is just not enough to counter the "Novus Ordo" Catholicism that has infested all Catholic Institutions... Thanks to Summorum Pontificum, I would also pray for other TLM-based Orders to arrive in India and expand along with the SSPX e.g. the FSSP, ICKSP, etc... I know that the SSPX and FSSP are present in Sri Lanka since they have a Tradition-friendly Archbishop who heads the National Bishops' Conference in Sri Lanka and his ideologies match those of Pope Benedict XVI...
But unfortunately, that's not the case in India...

In a nutshell, SSPX is good for Catholicism in India but it has to break all the obstacles posed by the incumbent clergy without compromising on its beliefs... And Traditional Roman Catholicism can be spread only if other Orders join in this battle against liberal Indian Catholicism (it's in no way Roman)... Only an army of Traditional Orders can defeat liberal "Indian" Catholicism to the core... And SSPX, FSSP, ICKSP could be regiments of this army... They may have disagreements but have to focus on the ultimate goal of Catholic Restoration in India...

Hope you understood my point, MagisterMusicae...! 

+PAX ET BONUM...+
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#30
(01-29-2018, 08:31 PM)IntoTheMystic Wrote: Wow. I didn't know that about the SSPX priests over there! I will have to add them specifically to my prayer intentions going forward.

Yes... Please do... Urgently required...!  :)
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