Santa Fe Travesty?
#10
(02-02-2018, 02:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(02-01-2018, 10:30 PM)DJR Wrote: As I stated prior, it depends on what happens during the "pagan services" as to whether sacrilege takes place.  I don't know, and I don't think anyone else reading this knows either.

So why then suggest there is sacrilege. We can't use doubt as the basis for our reasoning. Doubt is precisely the inability to choose. And this would be a "negative doubt" (i.e., one based on mere speculation, nothing concrete).

If blasphemy is happening, it is blasphemy, not sacrilege.

Sacrilege is the violation of a sacred thing. When the church (with everything in it) was offered for sale it all ceased to be blessed or consecrated thus sacred (in the strict sense, which is what is required for the sin of sacrilege).

If you want to define sacrilege in very wide terms, I'm sure we could make this fit, but then the word loses any real meaningful definition.

(02-01-2018, 10:30 PM)DJR Wrote: I wasn't referring to mere use of the building as far as sacrilege goes; I was talking about what happens during the "ceremonies" with reference to the religious items that remain there.

Yes I know. As you admit, we have no idea what goes on in those ceremonies, so no reason to assume "sacrilegious" things do, any more than they do not.

I'd venture to guess more "sacrilege" happens in most Catholic churches than in this place. There is a very good reason to assume that (given the near total absence of confession in most places) most people are probably receiving Our Lord unworthily, for instance. The lack of Catechesis and instruction means that many people make sacrilegious confessions (but omitting sins). Just two examples.

(02-01-2018, 10:30 PM)DJR Wrote: An act of blasphemy aimed at one of the depictions of Christ, His Mother, or any of the other religious images would constitute sacrilege, regardless of whether that item "lost" its blessing (which isn't true, in any case). 

No. That would be blasphemy. Blasphemy is not the same thing a Sacrilege (which is precisely why we use two different words, and there are two specifically distinct sins).

Yes. Those items have lose their blessing. Any blessed item which is publicly offered for sale loses it's blessing. It is precisely why any religious object on eBay, or say, a Chalice, must be blessed again or reconsecrated.

The decree is issued for the church at least partially because of the legal effects. A consecrated or blessed church is considered as a legal person under the authority of local bishop. The decree not only has the effect of de-sacralizing the church, but also removing the legal effects in Canon Law.

(02-01-2018, 10:30 PM)DJR Wrote: The statues, assuming they were blessed, don't "lose" their blessings merely because the chapel was deconsecrated.  If something were to happen to them, they would have to be disposed of properly and reverently.

They lose their blessing by having been offered for sale.

(02-01-2018, 10:30 PM)DJR Wrote: The chapel does not purport to be a Catholic shrine.  It's basically a museum that is attached to a modern hotel.  There is a book shop outside the chapel, in the hotel area, that sells Catholic items.  I don't know who runs it.

Yet their website is basically a large religious item shop, and they do accept donations. They publish books on the history of the chapel with addresses for donations, especially highlighting the staircase, and they make no effort to suggest that the chapel is no longer a Catholic church.

That could be considered deceptive.

The initial poster stated that sacrilege takes place at Loreto Chapel, and, in response, you positively asserted that no sacrilege takes place.

My question is:  How do you know that no sacrilege takes place there?

Next question:  Where did you get the idea that the statues were sold?  Just the mere fact that they are still present there?

The chapel clearly advertises that it is non denominational, as anyone who has been there can tell you, and the archdiocese has issued numerous public statements over the years in regard to the groups that have made use of the chapel.

From their website:  "Join us at the historic Loretto Chapel for your dream wedding. Holding 139 guests, the nondenominational Loretto Chapel is just the right size for those wanting an intimate atmosphere."

Do you believe that the simulation of Mass and other sacraments constitutes sacrilege?  Are you aware that Catholics have been involved in that at the chapel over the years?
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Messages In This Thread
Santa Fe Travesty? - by Zedta - 01-30-2018, 12:44 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by Magdalene - 01-30-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by MagisterMusicae - 01-30-2018, 03:06 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by DJR - 02-01-2018, 04:44 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by MagisterMusicae - 02-01-2018, 05:55 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by DJR - 02-01-2018, 10:30 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by MagisterMusicae - 02-02-2018, 02:44 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by DJR - 02-02-2018, 04:50 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by MagisterMusicae - 02-02-2018, 09:12 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by GangGreen - 02-01-2018, 06:17 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by GRA - 02-01-2018, 11:19 PM
RE: Santa Fe Travesty? - by Zedta - 02-03-2018, 02:31 PM



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